Any ideas?

[metrocammel]

Good idea.

I didn't mean i want to go an unusual route, i just want to do some Pendo bashing in FC, because the snack boxes on Voyagers are crap, especially when your only allowed one! (And no alchoholic drinks are complimentary on Voyagers )

If your on a child ticket, you shouldn't be considering consuming any alcohol, and the server would get in serious trouble if they served it to you!

Regarding the discussion about AP's on Primos, they are indeed, seldom seen. On a bog average FC Pendo, the food is only marginally better than the rubbish on a Voyager (eg, on a Pendo you may get some portion controlled cheese croissant (one per person)) which is hardly worth the high price of the ticket. I once bought a "one" advance ticket between London & Norwich, and had a lunch in the FC buffet (which plebs are entitled to do) Overall (for ticket & lunch together) I paid about £15. That IMO is super value. I imagine this could be done on GNER for perhaps £20 - £30, which is still good value for good grub & a ride on a mk3 / 4. However there is no such offer on Virgin- you are either a pleb in cr*p uncomfortable seats, or you are a "snob" in FC with a cr&ppy croissant (unless your a businessman on a Primo - which is paid for by your company expenses). So out of all IC TOC's I know, Virgin (other than the Primo gimmick) give you the least service, with MML not far behind on the service front (with the saving grace of copious amounts of tea & coffee served to you, and the ridiculously cheap fares!)

 

[CallySleeper]

If your on a child ticket, you shouldn't be considering consuming any alcohol, and the server would get in serious trouble if they served it to you!

I saw 'child' and 'alcoholic drinks' in the same paragraph as well and wondered. Just because they're free doesn't mean you'll be allowed to have any!

 

[voyagerdude220]

I saw 'child' and 'alcoholic drinks' in the same paragraph as well and wondered. Just because they're free doesn't mean you'll be allowed to have any!

I know this, and have never asked for any form of alcoholic drink before on the train. (I'm sure that the FC host would ask me for ID anyway)

I put the drinks bit in, because I know that most other members can legally get alchocolic drinks.

 

[yorkie]

I know this, and have never asked for any form of alcoholic drink before on the train. (I'm sure that the FC host would ask me for ID anyway)

Ah, so you were offered. I see. If it's with a meal then that's ok if you are accompanied by an over 18 (I think?), but if not then it isn't.

I can understand why they are offering it to you, because they assumed you were over 18 (they won't have been the same people who checked your ticket - and I bet you get asked for ID when you show a Child ticket?), and it's not really first class-style service to go up to people asking them for ID for complementary drinks, but nevertheless you should decline.

Some people who look older than they are try to "have their cake and eat it" by claiming cheap tickets and then consuming alcohol. A classic case is people who get into football grounds as "under 16s" then go straight to the bar and have a beer, I've seen loads do it. Not saying you do this sort of thing, but some people do.

 

[Death]

Morning again!
I'd like to point out my way of getting a good deal on the food I eat on board, using my last journey between Aldershot and Llanfair PG as an example:
(Note: Last time I made this journey was around Yule 2004CR, so service times may be a bit wayward. )

1. Have a good breakfast before setting out.
2. Catch the 06:15 from Aldershot, arriving at Waterloo at about 07:20.
3. Transfer to Euston via LuL. Journey is ideal for scoffing a small snack/second breakfast.
4. Catch 08:00 VT service to Crewe, arriving Crewe about 10:30.
5. Crewe is a great opportunity to grab a take-away lunch from McDonalds. (Sorry...Didn't mean to swear! :-P)
6. Depart on 11:00 service towards Holyhead, finishing the "lunch" bought in point 5.

What I'm saying with this is: I hardly use the buffet nowadays (MML and their free coffee is an exception! ) as getting decent meals from off-railway sites saves me a fair bit of cash...Especially since the VT invention of the £4,- sandwich! Normally I don't spend more than a fiver on food if I'm doing the above. Generally, it's a good idea to take a small selection of cheap (Think Tesco value) snacks and drinks in a bag to nibble on the journey, too!

As for ticketing: I must admit that I can't see where all the money goes to...I mean, when you buy a Virgin SuperDooperFirstApexVeryEarlyPrePurchaseReturn from their website, the money obviously goes straight to Virgin for your use of a Virgin service. I do wonder though - How do they work out how to share my fare when my journey could be:
Blackwater > Reading (FGWL),
Reading > Manchester Piccadilly (VWC),
Man Pic > Blackpool North (Northern or Arriva NW)
Now the lions share for that journey should obviously go to Virgin, but in this case there are three (Possibly four) train companies that have a valid claim to that fare...And that's without considering that I would have bought the ticket in question from a South West Trains ticket office! :-P

I also add here that I generally can't be bothered with the Apex and super cheap fares anyway as my travel arrangements are always made "on the fly". I find that my Y-P Railcard and a Saver Return save me more than enough as it is...And best of all, it allows me much greater flexibility with regard to available routes and rolling stock, too!
(That's why you can always see me darting over the bridge at Woking to catch the 159s that come up from Salisbury, just behind the 450s I arrive from Farnborough on! )

P.S: Please excuse my ignorance (I'm a forum ign2 but what do you mean by "Bashing a Pendolino?" :eek:

Farewell...
>> Death <<

 

[Tom]

Fares are dealt with by percentages under the ORCATS scheme.... for example, a Bournemouth - London Terminals R1256 under ORCATS is dealt with as follows:

• All the below percentages are approximations
• 65% - South West Trains (Direct Route or Via Portsmouth Direct)
• 25% - Virgin Trains (Direct Route (change Basingstoke) or via Reading (change RDG)
• 10% - Southern (change Southampton for route Horsham / Littlehampton)

 

[CallySleeper]

Voyagerkid - get a bitecard. Great food at a discounted price without having to go 1st!

 

[Mojo]

Fares are dealt with by percentages under the ORCATS scheme.... for example, a Bournemouth - London Terminals R1256 under ORCATS is dealt with as follows:

• All the below percentages are approximations
• 65% - South West Trains (Direct Route or Via Portsmouth Direct)
• 25% - Virgin Trains (Direct Route (change Basingstoke) or via Reading (change RDG)
• 10% - Southern (change Southampton for route Horsham / Littlehampton)

It depends where you buy it though - the ticket seller gets 9% commission, and the remainder is split between the TOCs. It's based on the number of seats a particular TOC provides and I believe there is also weighting in favour of InterCity services, but I'm not 100% sure.

 

[yorkie]

It depends where you buy it though - the ticket seller gets 9% commission, and the remainder is split between the TOCs. It's based on the number of seats a particular TOC provides and I believe there is also weighting in favour of InterCity services, but I'm not 100% sure.

Trains that are overtaken get no revenue for through tickets.

e.g. say a York-Leeds stopper is overtaken by a Newcastle-Liverpool express, then Northern do not get any revenue for through tickets by running that train - the only revenue they'd get is for journeys to/from the stations the stopper called at.

Tom - I think FGW would get some allocation from that ticket, albeit very little. Also the figures are not just approximations but wild guesses, I believe (unless you have insider info?).

Death - "I find that my Y-P Railcard and a Saver Return save me more than enough as it is" you must have a lot of money to burn, as such tickets are anything up to 10 times the cost of advance purchase tickets. (e.g. £3.95 single Leeds-London MML Adv Y-P vs £40ish saver single Y-P). Yes, sometimes savers are necessary but price rises over recent years is making them extreme poor value for money. I recently went First Class on MML+FGW HSTs to Cardiff, and back in standard - on a Virgin HST most of the way - for less than the price of a standard saver! And the Saver would have forced me to get a voyager or 158 on the way there instead of HSTs!

P.S: Please excuse my ignorance (I'm a forum ign2 but what do you mean by "Bashing a Pendolino?" :eek:

It could be argue that pendos can't be 'bashed' as they are just boring units, but I suppose we have to be politically correct so we'd better not exclude them - there are some unit bashers around To get an idea what bashing is (or rather, was), see http://www.dreadful.org.uk/ (but bear in mind that site is about bashers from the 70s/80s).

 

[87015]

It could be argue that pendos can't be 'bashed' as they are just boring units,

"boring units"....i've never used such a nice term for them!
Nought wrong with spinning around on units, whatever suits! I've had many enjoyable days on travelcards or something, with no locos whatsoever.
Many times have flagged a loco for a unit out of personal preference

To get an idea what bashing is (or rather, was), see

Plenty of stuff still left to do, find an interest in anything. Ok yes the quality of most days bashing have declined, but there is still oddities and the like which are worth a bash. The non-rail aspects are still there if not increased.
Plenty of preserved diesels to go round, and the scratch men have got thousands of units to underline

As long as you enjoy it, who cares!

 

[yorkie]

"boring units"....i've never used such a nice term for them!
Nought wrong with spinning around on units, whatever suits!

Yep it is too nice a name for them And some units are interesting, although there's not so many left these days and Pendos aren't among them, IMO

Plenty of stuff still left to do, find an interest in anything. Ok yes the quality of most days bashing have declined, but there is still oddities and the like which are worth a bash. The non-rail aspects are still there if not increased.
Plenty of preserved diesels to go round, and the scratch men have got thousands of units to underline

As long as you enjoy it, who cares!

Yeah, I wasn't saying bashing was over like some say, I just meant that site refers to what bashing used to be. For example they won't mention the likes of HSTs, 87s, etc that people 'bash' these days. But there isn't a modern-day equivalent site (that I know of??).

 

[87015]

No, that site is a bit of a one of a kind. Plenty of fotopic sites, you can tell the bashers ones as nearly all the pictures are at stations, the only country phots will inevitably be in the local area. No sign of a tripod, long lens and hi-viz standing in a field!

Prompted by this thread, I took a nose at my 321 mileages, and was a bit shocked! Without particuarly trying or comuting, 321405 is far higher than 87005!

 

[AlexS]

Over 30,000 miles on 153333 here.

 

[Death]

Hi again!

Death - You must have a lot of money to burn, as such tickets are anything up to 10 times the cost of advance purchase tickets. (e.g. £3.95 single Leeds-London MML Adv Y-P vs £40ish saver single Y-P).

Yikes! Didn't realise that the fare saving was THAT high! I alway thought that a SuperApex ticket was only something like 10% off of the Saver price! :eek:
Either ay though...I personally consider £15,- not a bad price to pay for a NetworkAwayBreak/Saver return from Farnborough to Waterloo, so I guess that it's not so much a question of "How much can I save?", but more "How much am I willing to pay?" when it comes to selecting tickets. Additionally, I hate being booked onto specific trains (As I always use the railway in a "Turn up and go" fashion) so the Saver gives me the flexibility to travel at any time outside of commuting hours, along any reasonable route that I choose!
In the trip mentioned earlier in this thread, I last did Aldershot > LLanfair P.G. via the following route:

Outward journey:

Aldershot > Waterloo,
[Transfer via LuL...Included in ticket.]
Euston > Crewe,
Crewe > LLanfair P.G.​

(I was expecting to have to catch a bus over from Bangor as LLanfair P.G. has a truly rural service, but I was lucky enough to catch a train that stops there on request. I have to say though that I appear to be the only person who actually ever uses that station for anything other than sightseeing purposes! :eek

Return Journey:

LLanfair P.G. > Chester,
Chester > Manchester Piccadilly,
Manchester Piccadilly > Sheffield,
[Stop off in Sheffield to visit an old friend],
Sheffield > Derby,
Derby > Birmingham No Smoking,
Birmingham NS > Reading,
Reading > Guildford,
Guildford > Aldershot.​

Now try getting away with that kind of route on a SuperApex ticket!

Personally, I don't really go out on the rails to actually "spot" trains (No, I don't note the unit numbers...Only glance at it to see what class of train I'm on!) but insted I just use them to get from A-B...But I'll still turn it into a bit of a bash if time, running, and permitted routes allow. Generally speaking, I just enjoy the journey really, but if I can catch one of my preferred classes of train (Bring back the APT! 8)) without delaying my arrival time by more than a few minutes, then I will...Hence my habit of always changing platforms at Woking for the Salisbury > Waterloo services.

...And I'm starting to fear that I might be considered a bit of a pariah here...I'm a multiple unit man myself, so I actually like Pendos, Voyagers, Sprinters and even the 444 Desiros! Still like the HSTs as well though, although more traditional loco-hauled services aren't so much my thing. The main reason that I like trains is because of the much higher than road speeds that they can achieve!

SMUs (Steam Multiple Unit) anyone? :P

Farewell...
>> Death <<

 

[yorkie]

Hi again! Yikes! Didn't realise that the fare saving was THAT high!

When doing long distance journies, it can be.

I alway thought that a SuperApex ticket was only something like 10% off of the Saver price! :eek:

Never heard of that - is that some SWT thing? Like a cross between Super Advance and Apex? Anyway, all the decent TOCs these days have abolished Super Advance, Apex etc and have introduced advance singles in their place. These allow greater flexibility (especially for circular routes!) and can work out massively cheaper when you book far enough ahead.

Either ay though...I personally consider £15,- not a bad price to pay for a NetworkAwayBreak/Saver return from Farnborough to Waterloo, so I guess that it's not so much a question of "How much can I save?", but more "How much am I willing to pay?" when it comes to selecting tickets.

That's a relatively short distance journey though, not like the example you used earlier (or the original topic either) which was for long distance.

Additionally, I hate being booked onto specific trains (As I always use the railway in a "Turn up and go" fashion) so the Saver gives me the flexibility to travel at any time outside of commuting hours, along any reasonable route that I choose!

I agree - but when it comes to a choice of York-London for £19 return or at least £45 with a Saver I can't justify wasting £26 for flexibility.

In the trip mentioned earlier in this thread, I last did Aldershot > LLanfair P.G. via the following route:






Outward journey:

Aldershot > Waterloo,​

[Transfer via LuL...Included in ticket.]​

Euston > Crewe,​

Crewe > LLanfair P.G.​

(I was expecting to have to catch a bus over from Bangor as LLanfair P.G. has a truly rural service, but I was lucky enough to catch a train that stops there on request. I have to say though that I appear to be the only person who actually ever uses that station for anything other than sightseeing purposes! :eek

Yep, fine, but I bet a Virgin Value single would've been less than £10 if you'd booked ahead

Return Journey:

LLanfair P.G. > Chester,​

Chester > Manchester Piccadilly,​

Manchester Piccadilly > Sheffield,​

[Stop off in Sheffield to visit an old friend],​

Sheffield > Derby,​

Derby > Birmingham No Smoking,​

Birmingham NS > Reading,​

Reading > Guildford,​

Guildford > Aldershot.​

I don't think that is valid, I can't find any permitted routes that allow you to go via Manchester & Sheffield.

Now try getting away with that kind of route on a SuperApex ticket!

"Getting away with" is different to being valid. There's a saying we have, "there are valid tickets that look invalid, and there are invalid tickets that look valid, and there's anything in between"

Ironically, in order to do the journey you mentioned on valid tickets, the ONLY way to do so is by getting advance singles! In this case, 2 singles for the way back. It would have probably worked out cheaper, but I agree less flexibile than Savers.

Personally, I don't really go out on the rails to actually "spot" trains (No, I don't note the unit numbers...Only glance at it to see what class of train I'm on!) but insted I just use them to get from A-B...But I'll still turn it into a bit of a bash if time, running, and permitted routes allow. Generally speaking, I just enjoy the journey really, but if I can catch one of my preferred classes of train (Bring back the APT! 8)) without delaying my arrival time by more than a few minutes, then I will...Hence my habit of always changing platforms at Woking for the Salisbury > Waterloo services.

Yep it's nice to be able to just hop platforms, but at what price... it depends on the journey. For long distance, it's an expensive luxury to be able to do that.

But, if you get a decent TOC they will actually say what traction each train is so if you do book in advance then you can book on a type of train you like (GNER, MML and FGW all do this, although sometimes it can be tricky to work it out - e.g. with FGW to find HSTs you look for a symbol that indicates that bicycles have to be pre-booked or something odd like that, IIRC! Virgin have a symbol "NP" which denotes "Not Plastic" )

 

[Tom]

SuperApex is a Super Advance.