Any new loco hauled stock?

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Badger

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I was trying to work out which existing freight locos would look nice as locos for a passenger service, but it occured to me I don't know of any loco hauled trains other than the HST and the 225/variations of. (Barring private charters and such)

I'm wondering what the newest loco-hauled passenger train(s) are in the UK, if indeed there have been any since.

I always thought Eurostar was, but apparently it's an EMU? (373)

What stock do such trains use? Or hasn't there been any since mark 4s?
 
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TDK

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I was trying to work out which existing freight locos would look nice as locos for a passenger service, but it occured to me I don't know of any loco hauled trains other than the HST and the 225/variations of. (Barring private charters and such)

I'm wondering what the newest loco-hauled passenger train(s) are in the UK, if indeed there have been any since.

I always thought Eurostar was, but apparently it's an EMU? (373)

What stock do such trains use? Or hasn't there been any since mark 4s?
Class 67's are used in passenger service on a regular basis with Chiltern coupled with Mark 3 coaching stock with a Mk3 DVT on the rear/Front. This idea was originally thought of by EWS for their company train then it was adapted for Wrexham and Shropshire who have now ceased operartions so really the only proper regular loco hauled services are by Chiltern from Brum to London and also ATW for their WAG express to Cardiff from Holyhead - ATW are currently using the ex VT 57's but are giong to be using the 67's shortly

as for freght locos only those with ETH can be used and there are not any reliable enough except the 67's to be honest
 

TGVDUDE

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To be pedantic eurostars are TGVs bit allocated the TOPS allocation of class 373, and don't think there has been recent stock since Mk4s however Chilterns Mk3s have been nicely refurbed when under WSMR and Im not sure what stock arriva will use when the 67s are implemented between cardiff & holyhead
 

MK Tom

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No new hauled coaching stock has been built in the UK since the mark 4s except for the Nightstar coaches intended for channel tunnel sleepers that never materialised. They were sold to Via Rail and now ply their trade between Ontario and Quebec. Ireland has bought its own mark 4 carriage, very different to ours, which was introduced in 2007.
 

DownSouth

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I always thought Eurostar was, but apparently it's an EMU? (373)
The TGV-TMST (designated Class 373 in Britain) used on Eurostar services is an odd hybrid between a loco hauled/shoved train and an EMU. They have a locomotive at the end of each half-consist which is capable of unassisted movement, but the first bogie in the first coach is also powered which makes the case for it being an EMU.

I'm wondering what the newest loco-hauled passenger train(s) are in the UK, if indeed there have been any since.

...

What stock do such trains use? Or hasn't there been any since mark 4s?
The Class 67 is significantly newer than the TGV-TMST and regularly hauls Mark 3 coaches for 'proper' regular scheduled services for Chiltern and a combination of Mark 2/3 coaches for Scotrail.

The future could possibly see British-gauged versions of the Bombardier TRAXX and/or Vossloh Eurolight locos put to work on passenger trains in Britain. These would ideally work with new stock that has AAR couplings and driving cabs at each end of the rake (AAR multiple working) for maximum flexibility.
 

AlanFry1

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The newest Loco hauled combination would be the Class 91/Mark 4 stock

I think that no new loco hauled stock will ever be built and no locomotives will be built for passnger trains, the future is EMU
 

Yew

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I always understood that Eurostars where roughly similar to HST's in their traction formation, but with a funny bogie layout...

67s are way newer than 90s. Ordered post-privatization, as it happens.
But they pull older Mk3's :)

You do know that the IEP could be re-specified as LHCS right?
Hopefully it will, the system they want now if stupid (especially for Bi mode) Unpowered power cars, and then powered axles on the carriages
 
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Yew

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And some Mk2 on the Highland Caley :P
I used the lowland Caley, and was impressed with MK2's they rode quite well, and wherent as squeeky as some MK3's can be. (I was definately hearing some springor corridor connection noise in my compartment)
 

Nym

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And some Mk2 on the Highland Caley :P
And Mk1s on charters ;)

Speaking seriously, if I had the time I'd spec up a decent proposal (more so than what I have posted before) for an LHCS solution to the IEP, that would address the issed presented that tend to favour E/ED/DEMUs. Dependant on if formations are to be fixed, semi fixed, or fully flexable. Semi fixed formations, similar to HSTs and Mk4 sets, makes such a design very very easy, especially with the latest developments in HVDC technology from ABB and Siemens.
 

AlanFry1

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You do know that the IEP could be re-specified as LHCS right?
Yes, but I do not think it will happen and they will be EMU/DMU sets
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
67s are way newer than 90s. Ordered post-privatization, as it happens.
The 67 were NOT ordered for passenger services, but for mail servcies, it was some time before they were used for passenger services
 

DarloRich

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Class 67's are used in passenger service on a regular basis with Chiltern coupled with Mark 3 coaching stock with a Mk3 DVT on the rear/Front. This idea was originally thought of by EWS for their company train then it was adapted for Wrexham and Shropshire who have now ceased operartions so really the only proper regular loco hauled services are by Chiltern from Brum to London and also ATW for their WAG express to Cardiff from Holyhead - ATW are currently using the ex VT 57's but are giong to be using the 67's shortly

as for freght locos only those with ETH can be used and there are not any reliable enough except the 67's to be honest
And on the Fife circular service
 

HSTEd

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Hopefully it will, the system they want now if stupid (especially for Bi mode) Unpowered power cars, and then powered axles on the carriages
Powered axles on all carriages is the future, even if you end up doing what I've suggested before which is just have a 25kV busline through the train for ETS and traction supply and then have transformers in all carriage.

A diesel power unit coudl be attached (with one powered axle for shunting purposes) and then run its generator through the 25kV busline (it would use 400Hz or higher instead of the 50Hz provided under electric power to keep the weight of the large transformer in the power car down).
 

Nym

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Powered axles on all carriages is the future, even if you end up doing what I've suggested before which is just have a 25kV busline through the train for ETS and traction supply and then have transformers in all carriage.

A diesel power unit coudl be attached (with one powered axle for shunting purposes) and then run its generator through the 25kV busline (it would use 400Hz or higher instead of the 50Hz provided under electric power to keep the weight of the large transformer in the power car down).
Is pretty much what I would be developing, except I'd be using HVDC transmission to help reduce the power electronics in carriages, and have a seperate ETS feed.
 

HSTEd

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Is pretty much what I would be developing, except I'd be using HVDC transmission to help reduce the power electronics in carriages, and have a seperate ETS feed.
Seperate ETS feed causes all sorts of headaches and would eliminate the primary benefit of routing everything through the 25kV busline (the cable can be smaller).

Additionally HVDC means that you would need to have additional converters in the pantograph/generator carriage increasing the weight of that vehicle and putting in the various differentials I was aiming for at risk (ideally SP under diesel power).
 

Nym

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Nuhuh, Stabalised demand based DC generators are lighter than their balanced AC counterparts, especially if we're dealing here with 1 phase AC, and the use of 1phase AC throughout the distrubution would result in some difficult power electronics in each carriage, where as if HVDC is used to transmit down the unit, each motor controller will only require the invertor stage, rather than the rectifier and invertor.

Although, if we can perfect the use of 3 phase AC to move ETS and motor currents through the train with enough power, I'll withdraw my objections and go with a 3 phase AC system, but I maintain a seperate ETS feed to be advantagous.

At the moment I'm thinking a series of magnetically mated 11kV connectors on the roofline, maybe 3.3kV as it needs MUCH smaller insulators, and is proberbly low enough to not need significant seperation from OHL systems.
 

starrymarkb

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I always understood that Eurostars where roughly similar to HST's in their traction formation, but with a funny bogie layout...
The leading coach is motored, you can really hear the motors working if you are sat in coaches 1 or 18

[youtube]8EhgkJB_Qrw[/youtube]
 

Rhydgaled

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Hopefully it will, the system they want now if stupid (especially for Bi mode) Unpowered power cars, and then powered axles on the carriages
Assuming you are referring to the idea of unpowered diesel power cars then I think that was dropped ages ago. I think it will now be an underfloor-engined DMU, with three motor coaches and two trailers for the 5-car sets. There will of course be a pantograph, hence the term bi-mode.

Speaking seriously, if I had the time I'd spec up a decent proposal (more so than what I have posted before) for an LHCS solution to the IEP, that would address the issed presented that tend to favour E/ED/DEMUs. Dependant on if formations are to be fixed, semi fixed, or fully flexable. Semi fixed formations, similar to HSTs and Mk4 sets, makes such a design very very easy, especially with the latest developments in HVDC technology from ABB and Siemens.
Regretablly, I think it is too late for wholesale replacment of IEP, there would be hugh outcry at lossing Hitachi's proposed north-east assembly plant. I think they should just get on and order a fleet of straight EMU Hitachi IEPs (no emergency diesel generator either, that's just extra weight) for Paddington-Oxford/Cheltenham/Bristol/Weston-Super-Mare/Cardiff and the East Coast services that don't go to Scotland (since the ECML's OHLE is less reliable than elsewhere I suppose you might be able to make a case for an emergency generator on the sets destined for the ECML). That of course involves extended electrification, and I suggest the Lincon service (since unlike Hull and Harrogate nobody has suggested electrifying the route) could be done by attaching a 67 for the off-wire section, and the Bristol - Weston-Super-Mare section could be loco-dragged too. For Scotland, Swansea (and west thereof) and nearly all trains beyond Taunton (FGW's 180s could perhaps cover the Paddington - Exeter semi-fasts) loco-hauled (with coaches that fit at least all lines mark 3s can be cleared for without works) should still be the way forward in my opinion. For beyond Taunton be that would be Intercity 125s until the new Great Western franchise ends around 2030, when electrification down there will be needed. For the rest, the stock could be new-build push-pull trains (coupled with an order of coaches of the same design for the sleeper trains), new locos with mark 3 coaches (and potentially a few extra, passenger carrying, DVTs) or re-deployed IC225s (the last option might force the ECML Scotish services to be IEP EMUs also, with 67s hauling north of the wires (interworking with the sleepers), so all IC225s can go to Great Western (where as well as south Wales runs they would work all services beyond Cardiff and some Bristol fasts (alongside IEPs on the slower Bristol runs) and any diversions).

Flexibility of the bi-mode IEP is an oxi-moron because of the 26m carriges. Since they have to be confined to a limited set of routes, they might as well be confined basicly to electrified routes and save the cost of widening the diesel routes, and of the diesel engines they currently plan on putting in IEPs. Somebody needs to find a way of getting that into the DfT's skulls.
 
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