'Any Permitted' ticket valid on London Midland?

[blakrob]

Hi,

I have bought an Off-Peak return from Birmingham International to London Euston with a Young Persons railcard (so the usual Monday-Friday evening peak restriction is lifted).

However, is the return part of this 'Any Permitted (route)' Off Peak ticket valid on London Midland services from Euston to Birmingham - or just on Virgin Trains services - during the evening peak?

Whilst London Midland allow 'London Midland only' London to Birmingham tickets during the evening peak, they state that 'Any Permitted' tickets are subject to Virgin Trains restrictions - as they set this fare. Therefore, most Off Peak 'Any Permitted' tickets wouldn't be valid during the evening peak on London Midland - but does the special Young Persons railcard VT privilege (of no evening peak restrictions) also apply to travelling on London Midland services?

Thanks a lot.

 

[ChrisTheRef]

As the ticket allows use on any route permitted, and there's a direct train from BHI to EUS, then yes, perfectly valid

 

[mathmo]

As the ticket allows use on any route permitted, and there's a direct train from BHI to EUS, then yes, perfectly valid

I think you have misunderstood the question.

The restrictions applied to the Birmingham International to London Terminals ticket apply to LM trains too (even though most people would use Virgin). The railcard concession, however, does not:

Holders of 16-25, Senior,  
Disabled Persons, HM Forces   
and Family & Friends Railcards
, New Deal Photocards and     
Inter-Rail (Code 70) Cards    
travelling with Off-Peak      
tickets may use ANY [B]Virgin    
train service[/B], as long as the 
journey being made is priced  
by Virgin Trains.

This (taken from NFM03 but I doubt it has changed) states that the concession is only valid on Virgin services and therefore your ticket should be rejected on LM services during the evening peak. Of course it would be valid outside the peaks.

 

[yorkie]

Strictly speaking, it's not valid. Whether or not it would be accepted I do not know*, but it wouldn't make sense to attempt it when you can use a Virgin train, which you've paid more to be able to use!

* I wonder if a Zero excess could be issued to a LM only? I can't see any point in doing this. I know you can't excess from a TOC specific ticket, but I have not seen it documented anywhere (yet) that you cannot excess to a TOC specific ticket - normally you'd not want to!

 

[Solent&Wessex]

* I wonder if a Zero excess could be issued to a LM only? I can't see any point in doing this. I know you can't excess from a TOC specific ticket, but I have not seen it documented anywhere (yet) that you cannot excess to a TOC specific ticket - normally you'd not want to!

I can think of an instance when you might. Between Liverpool and Manchester there is a First Class "Any Permitted" fare, and a First Class "TPE only" fare, which is quite a bit cheaper than the any permitted fare. Thus, as TPE is the only operator to offer first class you may choose to purchase a Standard Class Any Permitted return, then XS up to the TPE only first class fare. This allows you to travel first class both ways, but doesn't restrict you to TPE trains if you changed your plans and wanted to use your Any Permitted standard class fare on East Midlands or Northern.

Yes you may forfeit the first class bit, but that is cheaper than buying the First Class Any Permitted fare, and also cheaper than buying the First Class TPE ONLY fare and having to buy a new ticket if you decided to come back standard class on another operator.

 

[mickey]

Strictly speaking, it's not valid. Whether or not it would be accepted I do not know

You wouldn't even be allowed onto the platform at Euston with it. Simply put, LM does not follow VT's ticket easements, and during the pm peak it's quite understandable why!

 

[pemma]

From London Midlands site:

OFF PEAK TICKETS
Generally available for travel after the morning peak Monday - Friday (trains arriving into London from 1000, or trains departing after 0930 in the West Midlands) and anytime at weekends, Off-Peak tickets are

* cheaper than Anytime tickets
* available without pre-booking
* available for seating in standard class accommodation only

Please note:

* Off-peak tickets to/from London are not valid on trains leaving Euston between 1645 and 1845, for journeys to Watford Junction and any station as far as (and including) Long Buckby.
* Off-peak tickets are not valid on trains leaving central Birmingham (New Street, Snow Hill, Moor Street, Jewellery Quarter and Five Ways) between 1635 and 1800, unless you are travellling beyond Hereford, Shrewsbury, Stafford or Northampton.

 

[bakerstreet]

I think there is a way around this at least for afternoon peaks.

I read in the current issue of Rail that it is easy for everyone to avoid paying London Midland pm peak fares by buying a ticket to Clapham J (instead of Euston) or K Olympia (instead of Watford J) then tix are valid on any afternoon LM train without restriction.

Anyone with NFM05 Avantix can confirm??

A nice solution if true....

 

[yorkie]

From London Midlands site:

That quote is rather misleading (not having a go at you - but whoever wrote it for LM).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think there is a way around this at least for afternoon peaks.

I read in the current issue of Rail that it is easy for everyone to avoid paying London Midland pm peak fares by buying a ticket to Clapham J (instead of Euston) or K Olympia (instead of Watford J) then tix are valid on any afternoon LM train without restriction.

Anyone with NFM05 Avantix can confirm??

A nice solution if true....

I tried it for MKC-CLJ and it works for that flow. The ticket does cost a few quid more than just to Euston though. (Over £5 more in this case).