Application help

[markymark2000]

Hi there,
I keep applying for jobs at TFW (And formerly ATW) and a few other local TOCs but I always get declined at shortlisting and none of them will provide feedback. I have no previous experience in trains (I'm only 20) so my whole application relies on my CV and cover letter or personal statement depending on what the company asks. Is there any advice people can give to try and boost the personal statement. I have asked for work experience twice. First a few years ago as part of High School (so around 5 years ago) and no one ever replied, let alone said no. Myself, school and council education staff all tried contacting and no one got anywhere. When I have been into the station more recently to try, they say call customer service (which I did) and I again got no further.

I feel like I am at a bit of a brick wall as TOCs aren't overly helpful in term I don't drive so I can't get to some of the other stations so I am stuck with roles based close to Chester (I would look to relocate possibly if the right job became available but I don't feel the costs works out for some of the lower paid railway jobs).

Any help that people can provide would be appreciated.
Many thanks


Personal Statement
Basically says that I am self motivated and have a keen interest in trains. I have proven I can assist the general public in previous jobs and volunteer roles. I am known locally for my knowledge of public transport and I am always being asked for help to assist people. I noted that I have knowledge of NRE and RTT so I can help passengers quicker and I know about quite a few local ticket restrictions so can advise passengers of the correct ticket to purchase.

Original personal statement text removed so hopefully people don't steal it.

 

[Coach Carter]

They want to know about your transferable skills as opposed to you telling them that you feel you already know about public transport and ticketing restrictions. They will teach you everything you need for the role you’re applying for, but they want to know what you bring to the table in terms of skills that will let you make the most of what they will teach you.
Time keeping/punctuality, customer service skills, communication, team working and being able to work alone, working to instructions and rules are just a few of the many things. There are lots of examples from your work and personal life that demonstrate your potential to do the role your applying for.
Best of luck mate, just keep applying and you’ll get your chance eventually.

 

[RBSN]

Leave out the ‘keen interest in trains’ part.

Read the job description and edit your applications to fit; IE. Make sure you’re promoting your transferable skills to match what they are looking for.

 

[MiNi]

Leave out the ‘keen interest in trains’ part.

Read the job description and edit your applications to fit; IE. Make sure you’re promoting your transferable skills to match what they are looking for.

I agree,definitely leave out the 'keen interest in train's part as they are not interested in hiring a train spotter/rail enthusiast.
They want to hear your 'putting the customer first'statement not that you will be looking around the train rather than focusing on the passengers.

 

[LCC106]

Adding to Coach Carter’s advice, they are especially looking for someone who is health and safety focused. What work experience do you have? Voluntary or paid? How does this correlate? If none, you need to work on this area as a priority. If you’re getting no response from Customer Services, which is highly likely scaled down to skeleton staff due to the current climate, maybe private message their Facebook page for an email address to write to.

 

[bruebunny]

The thing that matters to them first and foremost is safety. If you can find a way to have experience of operating under safety protocols (the more stringent and important the better) then that will help massively.
Try and build a collection of circumstances that cover what the job requires. Interest in trains is the lowest priority for them, safety experience, customer focused roles, examples of dealing with emergency situations, keeping calm under pressure, attention to detail over an extended period of time, working with a group and working solo.

I spent years getting nowhere with applications, until I started working as a healthcare assistant and studying as a nurse. This gave me enough safety and customer interaction experience to get past the initial sift that I never had before.

 

[markymark2000]

They want to know about your transferable skills as opposed to you telling them that you feel you already know about public transport and ticketing restrictions. They will teach you everything you need for the role you’re applying for, but they want to know what you bring to the table in terms of skills that will let you make the most of what they will teach you.
Time keeping/punctuality, customer service skills, communication, team working and being able to work alone, working to instructions and rules are just a few of the many things. There are lots of examples from your work and personal life that demonstrate your potential to do the role your applying for.
Best of luck mate, just keep applying and you’ll get your chance eventually.

Thank you for your advice.
Being 20 and only having 1 job (which was temporary), I don't think I have many transferable skills. I tried not to include some of the things which you said as isn't that what everyone says and it must get boring to read what are essentially basics?

Leave out the ‘keen interest in trains’ part.

Read the job description and edit your applications to fit; IE. Make sure you’re promoting your transferable skills to match what they are looking for.

I agree,definitely leave out the 'keen interest in train's part as they are not interested in hiring a train spotter/rail enthusiast.
They want to hear your 'putting the customer first'statement not that you will be looking around the train rather than focusing on the passengers.

I thought the keen interest in trains bit would help as then I wouldn't need showing as much and I am better placed to help passengers than some randomer who has little idea where trains go until about 6 months into the job. I have no interest in looking around trains rather than focussing on passengers obviously.

Adding to Coach Carter’s advice, they are especially looking for someone who is health and safety focused. What work experience do you have? Voluntary or paid? How does this correlate? If none, you need to work on this area as a priority. If you’re getting no response from Customer Services, which is highly likely scaled down to skeleton staff due to the current climate, maybe private message their Facebook page for an email address to write to.

Current work experience is volunteer at a bus and tram show each year and I had a paid job but it was as required to do timetabling and promote the bus company. When I was asking for work experience at the station, it was about a year ago so well before the virus and stuff.

I spent years getting nowhere with applications, until I started working as a healthcare assistant and studying as a nurse. This gave me enough safety and customer interaction experience to get past the initial sift that I never had before.

Shame that it's so hard to get into. The railways are meant to be expanding with more and more staff needed to keep everything running and still so many can't get jobs.

 

[Rockhopper]

Working on the railways in those kind of roles isn't about trains, its about customer service and hence being able to maximize profits. Thats what HR want to hear you talking about in your application.
If i was you I'd consider getting a job at Tescos or similar for a year and then have another crack at the railways. That'd give you loads of transferable customer focused skills.

 

[bruebunny]

Shame that it's so hard to get into. The railways are meant to be expanding with more and more staff needed to keep everything running and still so many can't get jobs.

The problem is just one of quantity. There does seem to be more roles, but there are more people applying. Every trainee train driver position will get literally thousands of applications, from people who are learning exactly how to maximise their chances of beating the sift. So you need to have enough things on your side you can point to and go "this job requires X and this shows I have a lot of experience in X."

 

[Stigy]

I thought the keen interest in trains bit would help as then I wouldn't need showing as much and I am better placed to help passengers than some randomer who has little idea where trains go until about 6 months into the job. I have no interest in looking around trains rather than focussing on passengers obviously

That’s not the case. You can train (no pun intended) some “randomer” to be able to tell customers which trains go where in a few days quite easily. They’re not going to simply think because someone knows what goes where, they need less training, and going in to an interview with that attitude certainly won’t get you a job. If you were employed in my team (when I had one ) and said that you don’t need training in certain areas because you know the information being taught, you’d have a shock coming.

I started my railway career at based at Clapham Junction in 2006. I thought I’d never learn where everything went from and at what time. It took me a couple of months. I can still recall what goes where, at what time and what time trains reach certain places. I was only at Clapham itself for 18 months. It’s about having a good work ethic rather than being an enthusiast. Some people generally don’t know half the info they should do because of disinterest amongst other things.

 

[LCC106]

As Rockhopper says, it is to a certain extent about Customer Service but Health and Safety is an absolute priority too. To echo bruebunny, there were 750 applicants per position when I applied for trainee driver. This should give you an idea of what you’re up against. I am sure there are more applicants per position now. So think of the experience those 750+ people have compared with you. As has been said before, look at the key responsibilities and identify where your experience matches them and areas you need to plug the gap.

Everyone is trained to the same standard so to suggest you wouldn’t need showing as much as some “randomer who has little idea where trains go until about 6 months in to the job” isn’t really relevant. You also come across as though you think you are better because of your interest. Companies will be put off by this kind of attitude.

What exactly does your voluntary work entail at the bus and tram shows? There could be relevant experience there, especially customer service and safety related.

EDIT to add Stigy posted whilst I was compiling my post. Listen to the words of a wise person! “If you were employed in my team and said that you don’t need training in certain areas... you’d have a shock coming.”

 

[Coach Carter]

Thank you for your advice.
Being 20 and only having 1 job (which was temporary), I don't think I have many transferable skills. I tried not to include some of the things which you said as isn't that what everyone says and it must get boring to read what are essentially basics?

Everyone that gets a job offer says those things yes. They may be the basics but they need to be included, I don’t know anyone that I work with that didn’t base there application around the basics. Build from the basics and relate everything back to safety safety safety. The hard part is making all this stuff stand out from the other applications and making it personal to you. You said you have only had one job so might be low on experience but do you have examples you could use from things like college or uni, social or sporting clubs you might be a member of etc?
Make sure everything is spot on including spelling, grammar, layout etc.
Remember HR are payed to be bored reading applications, but they also get hundreds and sometimes thousands for each position so any reason to put you in the no pile and move onto the next application will be taken.

 

[Ell887]

For anyone who’s struggling with experience, plenty of online providers are offering free enrolment on plenty of courses. Of course this doesn’t give you experience, however there’s a few health and safety ones that are worth having on your CV if you’re willing to put 12-hours or so of work in.

 

[Jamie Price]

Believe me, a keen interest in trains will get you absolutely nowhere, the basics are the basics for a reason so if you leave them out you'll get overlooked instantly. You need to stand out with personal examples of how you have managed your time efficiently, how you have shown resilience, how you have followed rules and regulations, how you have gone above and beyond to help someone, etc etc. Use the star method in your application - Situation, Task, Action, Result, when giving examples. And above all, demonstrate your ability to make sure everyone in your care will be safe. Don't ever go down the road of, I wont need as much training as anyone else, because someone with a complacent attitude such as that will get thrown straight in the 'no' pile. You need to approach your application from a whole new angle. Forget the knowledge of trains, NRE and RTT, as this will not impress them the same way as demonstrating your safety consciousness, communication skills, customer service skills and pimunctuality etc, and providing examples of these abilities. Good luck!

 

[richfoz84]

In my interview, I actually told them a career on the railway wasn’t because I’ve always wanted to be a train driver or having a keen interest in trains, it was for a better work / life balance for my family, wanting a professional role in can make into a career and I thrive on customer satisfaction and service. That did get a smile from the train driver manager interviewing me!

At 20, with the utmost respect, you don’t have the experience yet to have the transferable skills. I would consider changing your job now to gain more experience whether that be in the customer service environment or a safety critical role.

Maybe look at being a guard? Or another job on the railway for a while?

 

[Bucephalus]

I'd be tempted to go down the agency route into gateline / dispatch first - if there is any of that in Chester that is?

 

[221129]

I tried not to include some of the things which you said as isn't that what everyone says and it must get boring to read what are essentially basics?

I know at my TOC the initial cover letter was (I don't know if it still is) read by a computer looking for a number of the correct buzz words for the initial first sift. So if you're missing the basics you'll never pass it.

 

[Mills444]

Just to add to what the others have said above it might be a good idea to volunteer at a heritage railway in customer facing roles such as booking office or TTI role, this is because it will allow you to pick up a large amount of the transferable skills mentioned above and will give you plenty of STAR examples for you to use in your application as well as your interview.

Assuming you are aiming for a station/ booking office based role.

 

[markymark2000]

As Rockhopper says, it is to a certain extent about Customer Service but Health and Safety is an absolute priority too. To echo bruebunny, there were 750 applicants per position when I applied for trainee driver. This should give you an idea of what you’re up against. I am sure there are more applicants per position now. So think of the experience those 750+ people have compared with you. As has been said before, look at the key responsibilities and identify where your experience matches them and areas you need to plug the gap.

Everyone is trained to the same standard so to suggest you wouldn’t need showing as much as some “randomer who has little idea where trains go until about 6 months in to the job” isn’t really relevant. You also come across as though you think you are better because of your interest. Companies will be put off by this kind of attitude.

What exactly does your voluntary work entail at the bus and tram shows? There could be relevant experience there, especially customer service and safety related.

EDIT to add Stigy posted whilst I was compiling my post. Listen to the words of a wise person! “If you were employed in my team and said that you don’t need training in certain areas... you’d have a shock coming.”

I'm not suggesting for a minute I wouldn't need training. Of course I would. It just wouldn't have to be as intense and some of the potentially more complex things like ticket restrictions and day rovers as I know a good few bits already. If you know the tools to help get people the information, that then improves customer satisfaction. In the long run it might make little difference but in the very short term, it might help a small bit. I haven't put on the application that I wouldn't need training, it's just something I put here as it's my thought on the situation.
I have put my experience at the bus and tram show into the proper statement.

Everyone that gets a job offer says those things yes. They may be the basics but they need to be included, I don’t know anyone that I work with that didn’t base there application around the basics. Build from the basics and relate everything back to safety safety safety. The hard part is making all this stuff stand out from the other applications and making it personal to you. You said you have only had one job so might be low on experience but do you have examples you could use from things like college or uni, social or sporting clubs you might be a member of etc?

I didn't go to College or Uni and I haven't been to any clubs. I did Cubs (and previously Beavers) when I was 11 but is that relevant from 9 years ago?

In my interview, I actually told them a career on the railway wasn’t because I’ve always wanted to be a train driver or having a keen interest in trains, it was for a better work / life balance for my family, wanting a professional role in can make into a career and I thrive on customer satisfaction and service. That did get a smile from the train driver manager interviewing me!

At 20, with the utmost respect, you don’t have the experience yet to have the transferable skills. I would consider changing your job now to gain more experience whether that be in the customer service environment or a safety critical role.

Maybe look at being a guard? Or another job on the railway for a while?

I don't think I do have many transferrable skills, I fully agree which makes it that 1 step harder. I have been looking at other jobs in the railway including the trolley person, station staff and guard (All applied at separate times) and I have applied for a few companies at Crewe to try and get through that way but knowing I would have to travel.

I'd be tempted to go down the agency route into gateline / dispatch first - if there is any of that in Chester that is?

I don't think so. Most agency stuff seems to be down south from what I saw. I have had a quick look online and many of the companies which came back actually had no experience in rail.

I know at my TOC the initial cover letter was (I don't know if it still is) read by a computer looking for a number of the correct buzz words for the initial first sift. So if you're missing the basics you'll never pass it.

It's odd for it to be programmed to look for the same things which most people write. I tried to make it different to stop it being passed into the 'no' pile on the basis of it reading the same as everyone else.

 

[221129]

It sounds like you need to gain some experience outside of the railway for a while to be honest.

Your attitude is completely wrong and that probably comes across in your applications.

 

[Red1980]

Thank you for your advice.
Being 20 and only having 1 job (which was temporary), I don't think I have many transferable skills. I tried not to include some of the things which you said as isn't that what everyone says and it must get boring to read what are essentially basics?




I thought the keen interest in trains bit would help as then I wouldn't need showing as much and I am better placed to help passengers than some randomer who has little idea where trains go until about 6 months into the job. I have no interest in looking around trains rather than focussing on passengers obviously.



Current work experience is volunteer at a bus and tram show each year and I had a paid job but it was as required to do timetabling and promote the bus company. When I was asking for work experience at the station, it was about a year ago so well before the virus and stuff.


Shame that it's so hard to get into. The railways are meant to be expanding with more and more staff needed to keep everything running and still so many can't get jobs.

It's definitely not a shame it's so hard to get into mate. I shudder to think what the industry would be like if any old Tom dick or Harry was able to work on the railway. There's a reason it's as though as it is.

You need to get as much customer service experience as you can. It's great that you are seen locally as someone who's reliable in relation to the railway etc but unfortunately they need to see evidence of you putting this into practice.

Unfortunately due to your age combined with limited experience and no driving licence to get to places of work it is going to be a bit more difficult for you to sell yourself to them. Even voluntary or part time roles can be good selling points though.....even working in a local charity shop can be useful to an application if you can relate it to what you're applying for Experience in trains isn't the be all end all so I wouldn't worry about that in fact sometimes it can be more of a hindrance..... sometimes it's better to go at something with a clean slate if you know what I mean......so many people have been turned down for positions over the years because they've focused on their train enthusiast background a little too much.

Yeah the customer service department would probably be as much use as a chocolate fireguard in relation to work experience mate....the next time you're down at the station I'd ask to speak to a duty manager....they're more likely to have the correct contact numbers over a department who spend most of their time sorting out delay and refund enquiries.

Also worth remembering that transferable skills don't just come from your professional background. There's plenty of things from hobbies etc that can be transferable...... A friend of mine used the fact he was a keen long distance cyclist to show that he could keep concentration for long periods of time.....you've probably got more than you think.

Best of luck.

 

[Coach Carter]

Yer I think maybe getting a few years of work under your belt somewhere might be a good idea. Railway jobs are pretty much all well sort after and if I’m honest your CV is going to hold you back when put up against other people’s. I’m not meaning to sound nasty as I don’t know your personal circumstances or the reasons why, but if you haven’t been at college or uni since you left school an employer that can afford to be as picky with who it employs as the railway will be wondering why you only have one temporary job on your CV as opposed to a few years work under your belt.
I’m not saying give up m, but it might be an idea to pick up another job while you keep applying for the railway. Give yourself the best chance

 

[Jamie Price]

I'm not suggesting for a minute I wouldn't need training. Of course I would. It just wouldn't have to be as intense and some of the potentially more complex things like ticket restrictions and day rovers as I know a good few bits already. If you know the tools to help get people the information, that then improves customer satisfaction. In the long run it might make little difference but in the very short term, it might help a small bit. I haven't put on the application that I wouldn't need training, it's just something I put here as it's my thought on the situation.
I have put my experience at the bus and tram show into the proper statement.

That's a very dangerous attitude to have on the railway, complacency. When I started as conductor fairly recently I had a fair idea of some of the parts of my training, however i certainly did not make any sort of point of 'well I know this already'...fortunately from my point of view, as in some cases I was way off the mark, and not quite as up to speed as I had thought I was. All the same, I went into the training eager to start from scratch, and learn from the beginning. Everyone on my course, some of whom came from other positions on the railway, some who came from outside the industry, like myself, was taught exactly the same and each of us brought our own skills and knowledge to the course. I would suggest you take some time to gain some life experience so you can then apply those experiences to your application when you're ready. Keep working on your application and add in anything you can that might be relevant, your day will come it took me years!

 

[Ell887]

I was of the same thinking. Surely they’ll expect any person they employ to have the capacity to learn the role, so picking up route, ticketing etc should be expected as a given.

 

[the sniper]

I shudder to think what the industry would be like if any old Tom dick or Harry was able to work on the railway.

Wasn't it like that for the majority of its existence?

The messrooms are certainly getting duller as the old Toms, Dicks and Harrys leave us...

 

[moorw003]

I'm not suggesting for a minute I wouldn't need training. Of course I would. It just wouldn't have to be as intense and some of the potentially more complex things like ticket restrictions and day rovers as I know a good few bits already. If you know the tools to help get people the information, that then improves customer satisfaction. In the long run it might make little difference but in the very short term, it might help a small bit. I haven't put on the application that I wouldn't need training, it's just something I put here as it's my thought on the situation.

How exactly would an employer know what you know and don't know? Also, you might think you know about a particular process, but not the reason behind, the methodology or the reasoning, or the technical terms/industry jargon. When you're being trained, you are trained from a zero starting point. Just like everybody else. Much of your training could be in semi-large groups, on powerpoint presentations for example. If you take an attitude that it'll be less intense, that means you think you already know it all, and will be less likely to take in what you need to know. As others have alluded to, your perceived knowledge base is irrelevant. And your attitude to thinking that a little knowledge might go a little way to helping you, however well intentioned is misplaced.

That is not to say railway enthusiasts can't get jobs or youngsters for that matter, and you should be discouraged. I was taken on by SWR in March, and I had my dispatch training last week in Basingstoke. There were 3 of us there. Myself, a huge raiilway enthusiast, 30 years old, 10 years working in a supermarket and bored. I feel blessed to have got the job, but to be clear, I got the job because of how I came across and the customer service experience - at no point in the application process did I tell anyone about my railway interest.

The 2nd person there was a 19 year old, with little railway knowledge or interest in trains. But my impression of him is this is a super intelligent, well mannered guy with his head screwed on. A huge asset to the company.

The 3rd was a mid-30s guy who's just come off long term parternity leave after 5 years in the role previously and was on the course as a refresher. Myself and the 19 year old were coming at things cold, took in all the material, did what we were told, revised hard and got 100% on the assessment to get signed off. The referehser guy thought he knew everything, but was making silly mistakes and at the assessment got 86%. That was still a tight pass (I think), but he was so annoying to be around because he was acting like the experienced pro, but had no interest in the course as it was beneath him almost.

The point here, as many others have said above is to try and change your mindset. A bit of knowledge "might" be helpful if you get the job. But it won't help you get a job.

 

[Jamie Price]

How exactly would an employer know what you know and don't know? Also, you might think you know about a particular process, but not the reason behind, the methodology or the reasoning, or the technical terms/industry jargon. When you're being trained, you are trained from a zero starting point. Just like everybody else. Much of your training could be in semi-large groups, on powerpoint presentations for example. If you take an attitude that it'll be less intense, that means you think you already know it all, and will be less likely to take in what you need to know. As others have alluded to, your perceived knowledge base is irrelevant. And your attitude to thinking that a little knowledge might go a little way to helping you, however well intentioned is misplaced.

That is not to say railway enthusiasts can't get jobs or youngsters for that matter, and you should be discouraged. I was taken on by SWR in March, and I had my dispatch training last week in Basingstoke. There were 3 of us there. Myself, a huge raiilway enthusiast, 30 years old, 10 years working in a supermarket and bored. I feel blessed to have got the job, but to be clear, I got the job because of how I came across and the customer service experience - at no point in the application process did I tell anyone about my railway interest.

The 2nd person there was a 19 year old, with little railway knowledge or interest in trains. But my impression of him is this is a super intelligent, well mannered guy with his head screwed on. A huge asset to the company.

The 3rd was a mid-30s guy who's just come off long term parternity leave after 5 years in the role previously and was on the course as a refresher. Myself and the 19 year old were coming at things cold, took in all the material, did what we were told, revised hard and got 100% on the assessment to get signed off. The referehser guy thought he knew everything, but was making silly mistakes and at the assessment got 86%. That was still a tight pass (I think), but he was so annoying to be around because he was acting like the experienced pro, but had no interest in the course as it was beneath him almost.

The point here, as many others have said above is to try and change your mindset. A bit of knowledge "might" be helpful if you get the job. But it won't help you get a job.

Spot on with this comment my friend, I'd been dying to get into the industry for a long time and i feel absolutely blessed to be where i am, after working so hard to make it in, and I'm sure you're in the exact same position. Enjoy!

 

[ash39]

Shame that it's so hard to get into. The railways are meant to be expanding with more and more staff needed to keep everything running and still so many can't get jobs.

You need to look at it from the other side of the fence. TOC's have the luxury of a wide selection of candidates to choose from, as the railway tends to pay well for any given role so any vacancies (driving grade in particular) receive a huge amount of applications.

It's not that people can't get jobs, it's that only the very best people get them.

I'm not suggesting for a minute I wouldn't need training. Of course I would. It just wouldn't have to be as intense and some of the potentially more complex things like ticket restrictions and day rovers as I know a good few bits already.

This is not how training works in any industry - unless you are transferring from an identical role you will receive the same training regardless of prior knowledge. An employer can't just take your word that you 'know stuff' - they have to train it correctly and log the training. If it's a safety critical role, this becomes even more serious. A misdemeanour on a training record could potentially have criminal ramifications if an incident occurred.

I would follow the good advice given and try and find some other work which will give you some transferable skills that would stand you in good stead for a future application, you have plenty of time.

 

[Red1980]

Wasn't it like that for the majority of its existence?

The messrooms are certainly getting duller as the old Toms, Dicks and Harrys leave us...

Haha oh yeah at one point they were practically begging for staff.....mad really when having a pint at work was considered good practice lol....you'd think there would have been people knocking the door down with conditions like that

Yes that's true. Duller and a lot less friendly.

 

[Stigy]

I know at my TOC the initial cover letter was (I don't know if it still is) read by a computer looking for a number of the correct buzz words for the initial first sift. So if you're missing the basics you'll never pass it.

It’s like that at most places I believe for high volume jobs such as Guard or Driver, whereby it wouldn’t be feasible to physically read all applications. Not just restricted to cover letters or CVs, but entire application forms sometimes if the applicant has to complete competency based questions as part of it.

Jobs in less demand will usually have the whole packs sent to the recruiting manager(s) to physically read themselves as it’s easier to do, plus the manager usually wants to select themselves who they invite for interview etc. That’s how it was where I used to be, and with a few other companies I have experience in dealing with at least, and it does make sense.