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APT Passengers

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Joseph_Locke

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I was a semi-official stowaway (with my BR Father) on a test run that broke down 50 miles out of Euston. Which was handy, as we only had a mile or two to walk home. Even as a teenager (though one with 10-odd years of regular train travel in the bag) the ride was at best disconcerting (worst at the front) as the tilt system was hugely reactive.
 
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43096

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I think it was about 1984/85 but only certain services were timed for 110mph and those had to be double manned.
May 1984 was the start of 110mph running, initially two trains each way between Euston and Glasgow (including the up and down “Royal Scot”).

Two 87s were repainted for the launch: 87006 in a dark grey version of large logo (exec dark grey presumably) and 87012 in what later became known as “Executive” livery,
 

hexagon789

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May 1984 was the start of 110mph running, initially two trains each way between Euston and Glasgow (including the up and down “Royal Scot”).

Two 87s were repainted for the launch: 87006 in a dark grey version of large logo (exec dark grey presumably) and 87012 in what later became known as “Executive” livery,

Thanks for the details. I knew it had to be pre-1986 but no more than that. Was there any 'work' done to facilitate 110mph running or was it just a case of passing certain sections for the higher speed?
 

43096

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Thanks for the details. I knew it had to be pre-1986 but no more than that. Was there any 'work' done to facilitate 110mph running or was it just a case of passing certain sections for the higher speed?
Not sure what, if anything, was done infrastructure-wise (other than 110 speed limit signs). The most obvious modification was the fitting of Class 87 with new Brecknell-Willis high speed pantographs.
 

hexagon789

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Not sure what, if anything, was done infrastructure-wise (other than 110 speed limit signs). The most obvious modification was the fitting of Class 87 with new Brecknell-Willis high speed pantographs.

For some reason I thought 87s had those from new.
 

nw1

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May 1984 was the start of 110mph running, initially two trains each way between Euston and Glasgow (including the up and down “Royal Scot”).

Two 87s were repainted for the launch: 87006 in a dark grey version of large logo (exec dark grey presumably) and 87012 in what later became known as “Executive” livery,

I do remember a fairly radical change of certain WCML services in May 1984, particularly XC services. For example the previous year (1983/84) Stafford had both up and down Birmingham ICs at around xx25 (sometimes Manchester and sometimes Liverpool) while in May 1984 this changed so that southbound services in particular were all over the shop in terms of time of the hour. Presumably this was connected to the 110mph change?
 
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I had one journey Glasgow - Euston on the APT in the short period when it was in public service. On an all line rover, travelling first class, but there was no catering as some cupboard key had gone missing!


The journey was timed to take exactly five hours overall, the same time as the loco-hauled services. The speeds and tilting north and south of Carlisle were very impressive in places, and some whizzing along straighter bits at a speed which I think was above 125 mph. But the stop at Crewe (platform 3 now 11) was quite long, and we crossed from fast to slow at Polesworth, and ambled along the up slow from there to Nuneaton very slowly; I think it was still jointed track then, and quite uncomfortable! But comfort on welded rail was very good; overall the journey was a pleasant and interesting experience.


Somewhere in his thread is a comment that there no Mk 2 catering vehicles. I think there may have been one - M1800. It was always very smart and it usually ran in Birmingham - Glasgow services. But it may have been a modification of something else. I wonder whether it still exists.


John Prytherch.
 

WesternLancer

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I had one journey Glasgow - Euston on the APT in the short period when it was in public service. On an all line rover, travelling first class, but there was no catering as some cupboard key had gone missing!


The journey was timed to take exactly five hours overall, the same time as the loco-hauled services. The speeds and tilting north and south of Carlisle were very impressive in places, and some whizzing along straighter bits at a speed which I think was above 125 mph. But the stop at Crewe (platform 3 now 11) was quite long, and we crossed from fast to slow at Polesworth, and ambled along the up slow from there to Nuneaton very slowly; I think it was still jointed track then, and quite uncomfortable! But comfort on welded rail was very good; overall the journey was a pleasant and interesting experience.


Somewhere in his thread is a comment that there no Mk 2 catering vehicles. I think there may have been one - M1800. It was always very smart and it usually ran in Birmingham - Glasgow services. But it may have been a modification of something else. I wonder whether it still exists.


John Prytherch.

M1800 pics and notes here, says it was a conversion. A v good range of pics of unusual carriages
http://www.eastbank.org.uk/br_coaches.htm
 

GrimShady

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I really don't get why the Mark 4 is so hated. It's far better than the squeaky, bouncy, draughty Mark 3.

Nor do I. I love the MK4 and will be very, very sorry to see them go. IC225 is probably my favourite train of all time.

It's a choice of Mk4 or MK3 SLEP when I journey south. LNER MK3 is very bad for bouncing it's way south!
 
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trebor79

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Another Mk4 fan here. I didn't like the decor when they were first introduced, too much grey and horrible harsh lighting, but that was sorted out with the Mallard refurbishment.
As I said earlier, it is basically an APT-S, just without the tilt mechanism (unfortunately).

I think they are very nice trains, a pity about the garish red seats in them at the moment but still pleasant to travel on, and a taste of "what might have been".
 

GrimShady

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Another Mk4 fan here. I didn't like the decor when they were first introduced, too much grey and horrible harsh lighting, but that was sorted out with the Mallard refurbishment.
As I said earlier, it is basically an APT-S, just without the tilt mechanism (unfortunately).

I think they are very nice trains, a pity about the garish red seats in them at the moment but still pleasant to travel on, and a taste of "what might have been".

Agreed. MK4 Tilt would have been lovely to see. The SIG bogies let them down, if only BR had held out for the T5 bogies under development things would have been even better. Mallard was a vast improvement on the original fittings.
 

Bletchleyite

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Agreed. MK4 Tilt would have been lovely to see. The SIG bogies let them down, if only BR had held out for the T5 bogies under development things would have been even better. Mallard was a vast improvement on the original fittings.

I agree about the bogies - the ride is what really lets the Mk4 down, now the seating issue has been solved with the post-Mallard cushion replacement.
 

hexagon789

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Agreed. MK4 Tilt would have been lovely to see. The SIG bogies let them down, if only BR had held out for the T5 bogies under development things would have been even better. Mallard was a vast improvement on the original fittings.

I think it was T4 bogies and the issue was that guarantees could not be provided on lateral ride comfort at 140mph.

I believe the BREL International set was fitted with T4 bogies and retained these (albeit) regauged when shipped to Ireland and refitted by IÉ.

In spite of only operating at 100mph there, from reading various descriptions of them, consensus seems to have been they rode rather roughly, much poorer than a Mk3.
 

GrimShady

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I think it was T4 bogies and the issue was that guarantees could not be provided on lateral ride comfort at 140mph.

I believe the BREL International set was fitted with T4 bogies and retained these (albeit) regauged when shipped to Ireland and refitted by IÉ.

In spite of only operating at 100mph there, from reading various descriptions of them, consensus seems to have been they rode rather roughly, much poorer than a Mk3.

Your probably right. I had T5 in my head for some reason.

I would say that the MK3 of days gone by were a smoother ride than MK4 but not anymore. Apparently LNER use cheaper dampers these days resulting in the bouncy ride.
 

hexagon789

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Your probably right. I had T5 in my head for some reason.

I would say that the MK3 of days gone by were a smoother ride than MK4 but not anymore. Apparently LNER use cheaper dampers these days resulting in the bouncy ride.

The original type are no longer manufactured, VTEC tried about 3 different ones ISTR. I don't know that any HST operator has trailers with original bogie dampers.
 

GrimShady

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post-1305-0-54759500-1516116526.jpg

APT-Squadron before the project became IC225.
 

hexagon789

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post-1305-0-54759500-1516116526.jpg

APT-Squadron before the project became IC225.

There's proposed formations for these on the apt-p pages site. Pretty much an mid-point between the APT-P and IC225.

Now moved to locomotive-like power cars but the trailers are still articulated and tilt.

The APT-S actually looked more stylish than the APT itself I think!
 
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