Are 67s still doing Manchester to Holyhead?

Discussion in 'Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables' started by stretchdj74, 15 Apr 2019.

  1. craigybagel

    craigybagel Established Member

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    Wheel flats on the DVT
     
  2. mrcaa

    mrcaa Member

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    Thanks. Hope it doesn’t take too long to fix. Every seat was full at Piccadilly today so it’s going to be an interesting journey.
     
  3. Iskra

    Iskra Established Member

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    Hope it's sorted by next Monday as I'm booked on it in first. Won't be happy with no tea and on a crush-loaded 175, not for the first time...

    Why do they even need a DVT, when they have all day to run around at Canton? Guessing it's the Holyhead end, but again they must have time to do it overnight?
     
  4. Tom Maddox

    Tom Maddox Member

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    There is no first class on the Manchester set. The DVT is on the Manchester end, with the set stabling in Crewe overnight.
     
  5. Iskra

    Iskra Established Member

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    Ah, sorry, misread the thread title! I was thinking of the Premier Service.
     
  6. Tom Maddox

    Tom Maddox Member

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    Ah right, no worries. Definitely hope that doesn’t get replaced with a 175 then!
     
  7. craigybagel

    craigybagel Established Member

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    Several reasons

    The DVT provides a guards van with all the required safety equipment, brake controls (for brake continuity tests) and space for luggage.

    The DVT also means that the Premier service can reverse at Chester and serve Wrexham.

    But anyway, this thread is about the North Wales set - which changes direction 5 times during the day and thus requires a functioning DVT, which at the moment it doesn't have.
     
  8. krus_aragon

    krus_aragon Established Member

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    It could run-around its stock at many of those reversals (Chester, Llandudno, Holyhead) given enough turnaround time, but I've got no idea if there's a suitable location to do so at Piccadilly any more.
     
  9. mrcaa

    mrcaa Member

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    The 175 may have been crush loaded but one silver lining was that the PA was broken in the rear carriage. Just some faint crackly mumblings coming from it. Absolute bliss! Of course everyone left all of their belongings at their seats, as there’s no way they could have known they were supposed to take them with them without being told, but it was a price worth paying for peace.
     
  10. Bovverboy

    Bovverboy Established Member

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    I appreciate that this is probably a silly question, but could someone possibly remind me what advantage a four-car LHCS set has over a four-car DMU?
     
  11. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Veteran Member

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    It allows a 4-car DMU (or more likely 2 separate 2-car sets) to do more messy stuff elsewhere (Valleys etc).
    The Manchester Mk3 set exists because DB (not Arriva) donated it as part of the deal with DfT for them to take over the Chiltern and LO franchises.
     
  12. krus_aragon

    krus_aragon Established Member

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    In the Manchester - North Wales case, it has the advantage that disused LHCS is available, whereas additional DMUs arent/weren't.

    For Holyhead-Cardiff, there's also the existence of a kitchen car for first class meals. In the longer term, once new-build DMUs arrive, this will be the only remaining advantage.
     
  13. TheGarner

    TheGarner Member

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    The loco hauled service also has an advantage that it's quite long in terms of the coaches so you can get quite a lot of people on and theres lots of standing room too. When it gets replaced with a smaller 3 car class - you can definitely tell and is packed as soon as you leave Manchester.
     
  14. fairlie

    fairlie Member

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    LHCS is also nicer to travel on because you don't get the engine noise/vibration.
     
  15. Y Ddraig Coch

    Y Ddraig Coch Member

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    I'm not sure Llandudno has the run around loop anymore, it would need to shift the whole train down to the siding and do it there which would be quite time consuming. Although in the evening it does have about 30 minutes dwell time so could possibly be done.
     
  16. Y Ddraig Coch

    Y Ddraig Coch Member

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    To be fair ATW did a great job on the refurb of the mark III's they are a pleasure to travel on.
     
  17. Tom Maddox

    Tom Maddox Member

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    Absolutely. I’d take over a 175 any day. Looking forward to the Mark 4s being introduced on the 16th. Waiting to see which 67 it’ll be also.
     
  18. Jamesrob637

    Jamesrob637 Member

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    Hmm. 16/12 isn't that far off. Does the set operate Sundays? That gives TfW one day less again. Should this thread title be changed to something like "Loco-hauled Manchester to North Wales" as we're in the transition process from Mk3 to Mk4 yet the motive power will remain the same?
     
  19. Y Ddraig Coch

    Y Ddraig Coch Member

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    Doesn't work Saturday or Sundays.

    There is the odd exception.
     
  20. PHILIPE

    PHILIPE Veteran Member

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  21. Tom Maddox

    Tom Maddox Member

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  22. krus_aragon

    krus_aragon Established Member

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    The loop's still there in last month's PDF copy of the sectional appendix, but I don't know what the situation is in the signalbox itself.
     
  23. craigybagel

    craigybagel Established Member

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    As nice as the LHCS is, it had only one advantage at the time over DMUs that actually mattered.

    It was available. DMUs weren't.
     
  24. Merle Haggard

    Merle Haggard Member

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    On every occasion when I've travelled on this train from Holyhead I've noticed that the rear coach (next to the loco) is locked, with a printed notice saying 'Out of use' in the droplight. It seems to happen so often that it surely can't be a defective coach. This means, of course, that it's a 3 coach train (although the stations announcements always say 'this train is formed of 4 coaches').
    Curiously, joining the Holyhead service at Piccadilly I DID manage to get in the front coach (I wasn't first, I followed a lot of other passengers) and it wasn't locked. It seemed to get locked at Holyhead, though.
    Perhaps it's something to do with a short platform somewhere, but why have 4 coaches if that's the case?
     
  25. craigybagel

    craigybagel Established Member

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    The platform at Helsby heading towards Manchester is too short to take 4 cars. The coach nearest the loco is normally unlocked on arrival at Frodsham. All 4 cars are needed through to Manchester, as shown by the overcrowding this week whilst it's been operated by a 3 car 175.
     
  26. Merle Haggard

    Merle Haggard Member

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    Thanks for that explanation. However, I have encountered it being locked West-bound as well but, as I travel only perhaps once every two months, I accept my experience is anecdotal; and also the demand in that direction is met by 3 coaches. Even 3 mk3s seat 24 more than a 3 car 175, to add to the overcrowding when the latter is used.
     
  27. Penmorfa

    Penmorfa Member

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    The crossover is worked from a ground frame not the signalbox. So it requires the attendance of an extra member of staff to operate it.
     
  28. krus_aragon

    krus_aragon Established Member

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    I should have remembered the ground frame, having played around with it in SimSig a few times. :oops: I guess I should have said was "I don't know what the situation is at the station itself".
     
  29. Y Ddraig Coch

    Y Ddraig Coch Member

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    Yes that one with the ground frame is still there near the siding is still there I was meaning the run around section on platform 1 & 2 I think that has gone now.
     
  30. craigybagel

    craigybagel Established Member

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    Hmm, not sure about that then I'm afraid - other then the fact it's a bit awkward to lock/unlock a coach on the MKIIIs so there may keep it closed except when absolutely necessary?

    And that's before you add the requirement for a shunter/other person qualified to couple the loco up to the coaching stock. TfW guards are not qualified on that any more.

    Moving on, the DVT was brought down to Cardiff yesterday for repairs.
     

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