Are GTR finished?

[Deepgreen]

Yes, sadly I am not sure I can do much. I could stop using the train I suppose, but that would actually hurt me financially so pretty silly.

It does seem to me a good indicator of what things could be like if we ever renationalised the railway though. All our worst fears seem to be getting demonstrated here.

Perhaps I should be hoping TfL takes over London routes quicker than 2020 or so (and even that not being set in stone). At least I'd have a hopefully reliable service, albeit a slow one, into London and can consider the GN/TL services only when doing longer distance journeys.

I doubt it - here the Government has Southern/GTR to hide behind; under a nationalised system, that shield would not be so strong.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Check out this documentary from 1993. Particularly the bit from 11:05 to 15:00.

http://youtu.be/sULj6UpGAyU

Without looking - "Old , Dirty and Late" ! ?

Fair point - a grim period on the challenging Southestern. The last year or so before franchising saw BR under the cosh financially from HMG - a really miserable period with budget cuts of up to 10% imposed - and no investment to speak of bar "safety" and finishing the Channel link works.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

One one or more of the franchises that makes up GTR were to be taken away and put out to tender, is it possible that the DfT could specifiy the new franchisee to be all DOO?

 

[hwl]

If one or more of the franchises that makes up GTR were to be taken away and put out to tender, is it possible that the DfT could specifiy the new franchisee to be all DOO?

Not quite so simple but Southern Metro, GN Moorgate, Thameslink, if split out would already be DOO. (The first 2 are ideal Tfl transfers). GatEx probably be on that list shortly as well.

I suspect DfT would like majority or all DOO on constituents before it is split in 2021-2023, no one is expecting it to stay as one afterwards. (e.g. just Southern 313, 171 and WLL services with guards at the end?) DfT might award GTR an extension to replace 313s and go DOO on everything but 171s)

I suspect a 3 way split:
1. Metro SN and Moorgate to TfL
2. Thameslink and the rest of GN
3. Southern Mainline + Coast and GatEx

[And 4. SE metro to Tfl too so not as messy as it could be overall]

 

[al.currie93]

I doubt it - here the Government has Southern/GTR to hide behind; under a nationalised system, that shield would not be so strong.

Agreed - as I usually am... maybe it's the Dorking locality! Assuming that GTR are acting on the government's behalf, the government would get the full flack from doing this to a nationalised system, rather than being able to hide behind GTR and have us only being able to guess at best. Also...

It does seem to me a good indicator of what things could be like if we ever renationalised the railway though. All our worst fears seem to be getting demonstrated here.

Perhaps I should be hoping TfL takes over London routes quicker than 2020 or so (and even that not being set in stone). At least I'd have a hopefully reliable service, albeit a slow one, into London and can consider the GN/TL services only when doing longer distance journeys.

Isn't that a bit contradictory? TfL is ultimately a nationalised body, so a TfL takeover of these routes would lead to them either being fully nationalised (like London Underground), or at the very least run under a more tightly-held contract than GTR is (like London Overground and TfL Rail).

 

[Tetchytyke]

But then LOROL also sacked their remaining guards...

The current system is good for government to hide behind private companies, but government are just as good at hiding behind each other to get what they want. Hoping TfL- who got rid of guards on LOROL and Underground- will be better for staff seems...optimistic

 

[HH]

It should also be remembered that TfL closed LUL TOs and are looking to do the same on LO. Government can afford to be more gung ho on strikes, after all it's not their money...

 

[matt_world2004]

It should also be remembered that TfL closed LUL TOs and are looking to do the same on LO. Government can afford to be more gung ho on strikes, after all it's not their money...

I didn't know there were any guards on London Overground except Romford to Upminster

 

[ScotGG]

They weren't guards but on board staff.

Incidentally, since TfL cut staff at stations and closed ticket offices I've seen many more barriers open. People start to notice that and revenue drops accordingly...

 

[HH]

They weren't guards but on board staff.

Incidentally, since TfL cut staff at stations and closed ticket offices I've seen many more barriers open. People start to notice that and revenue drops accordingly...

Yes Conductors, rather than Guards, but still they had Safety responsibilities.

I can't say I've noticed many open barriers, but I'm sure some stations have them; they did even when there were ticket offices. You'd need them at both ends to escape paying, of course.

Taking staff from TO to concourse should actually help, but I presume they also cut staff at the same time.

 

[55003]

Anyway, you have royally missed the point. GTR is a management contract whereby GTR is paid a fee to operate the train service and the revenue from the passengers, once divvied up after being allocated by ORCATS, is paid directly to the Government. Essentially GTR's revenue is determined for the duration of the contract, so however the dispute works out it will have little or no effect on the price of any publicly traded shares.

Do you have any links to any documents regarding this contract?

 

[Class377/5]

Do you have any links to any documents regarding this contract?

It's on the DfT website like all rail franchises/management contacts are.

 

[Marshlinktrain]

RMT calls for parliamentary inquiry https://t.co/9qaQPlQKLA

Does anyone have any more info about this or can put me in contact with someone who does

[email protected]
@marshlinktrains

Part of Passengers against GTR

 

[55003]

I could not find the contract which is why I have asked about it, does anybody have a link please?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I could not find the contract which is why I have asked about it, does anybody have a link please?

You could always do a search for "GTR franchise agreement" yourself: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/govia-thameslink

 

[55003]

It is because I was looking for GTR management contract that it did not appear.

 

[physics34]

Gatwick Express drivers permanently lost the 12 car DOO court cast today at a cost of £250,000 to ASLEF.

 

[Class 170101]

Gatwick Express drivers permanently lost the 12 car DOO court cast today at a cost of £250,000 to ASLEF.

DOO Dispute Aslef vs GTR at Court

Still won't do anything for indutrial relations between Aslef and GTR will this victory for GTR.