Are 'No Sunday Services' acceptable nowadays?

[Gathursty]

The Ormskirk - Preston and the Wigan - Kirkby lines are local to me and has never had a Sunday service barring one day in 2016 IIRC. I'm sure we could populate this thread with more examples across the country but I ask is it acceptable to still have No Sunday Services any more?

 

[70014IronDuke]

The Ormskirk - Preston and the Wigan - Kirkby lines are local to me and has never had a Sunday service barring one day in 2016 IIRC. I'm sure we could populate this thread with more examples across the country but I ask is it acceptable to still have No Sunday Services any more?

I don't know those lines in any detail, but I suppose it should be on a case-by-case basis. Are the intermediate populations on those lines served by bus on Sundays? But even the Heart of Wales has a service, of sorts! So maybe they should have a claim.

What does amaze me is the differences in provision. I think Cambridge - Ipswich is hourly for most of Sunday, same as a weekday, just doesn't start so early. Sunday trains start from Yeovil Jcn at something like 07.xx - while other locations have nothing until 11.00.

For many years I hoped that some sort of Sunday service could be provided on the Cumbrian Coast - perhaps four trains each way per day, or some such - then Northern introduce a near hourly timetable, though again, understandably not starting so early as on a weekday. (I suppose the theory there is, if you are going to open all the boxes, might as well provide a decent service. Still a pleasant suprise though.)

Against this example, we have the G&SW which Scotrail seems to disown between Dumfries and Kilmarnock on the Sabbath.

NB, all these comments are from memory, and might be in error.

 

[Mag_seven]

I agree that probably most lines should have a Sunday service but the TOCs need (where necessary) to bring Sunday into the working week in the contracts of drivers/guards.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Maybe there just isn't any demand...

Mind, as I argue about Northumberland coast services the demand isn't there because the service isn't provided, so they don't provide a service because there is no demand, but if there was a service then there would be a demand....

 

[Llandudno]

Some of the lines like Ormskirk to Preston and Kirkby to Wigan have not had Sunday services for decades. But in those days very few shops were open, there was no Sunday football or Rugby and Liverpool was hardly the tourist hotspot that it is today.

It is ridiculous that no trains operate on these routes, mind you Northern don’t even bother to operate scores of timetabled Sunday services anyway!

TfW are starting to increase Sunday provision with the Conwy Valley Line and Llandudno Town, supposedly gaining all year Sunday services from December, assuming that they have sufficient train crew.

On the other hand Sunday bus services across the country are being decimated as Council subsidies are being reduced.

 

[2L70]

Being a PTE area or bordering a council that is proactive towards Public Transport(Lancashire) I’m guessing there is Bus Services to meet the demand?

Could be worse, could be Lincolnshire where there is only 3 usable Sunday bus services in the County: Hull - Barton - Scunthorpe, Lincoln - Grantham and Lincoln - Skegness.

 

[PeterY]

My opinions only. Bedford to Bletchley would never warrant a Sunday service. Without going into loads of timetables I sure there are lines that need a Sunday service.
I think just by tradition only, if a line has never had a Sunday service, it's never likely to.

 

[86246]

What does amaze me is the differences in provision. I think Cambridge - Ipswich is hourly for most of Sunday, same as a weekday, just doesn't start so early.

Ipswich - Cambridge is every two hours on a Sunday. Along with the East Suffolk, that is set to be improved to an hourly service from December.

 

[BucksBones]

My opinions only. Bedford to Bletchley would never warrant a Sunday service. Without going into loads of timetables I sure there are lines that need a Sunday service.
I think just by tradition only, if a line has never had a Sunday service, it's never likely to

I certainly hope that’s not true. The world is changing and Sundays are just like a second Saturday these days. There’s no reason beyond archaic employment practices for Sunday services to be as poor as they still are in many areas.

The one that got me recently was the XC Birmingham - Stansted route; if you want to go from, say, Nuneaton to Peterborough on a Sunday the first train won’t get you there until 13:15! Absolutely hopeless in my view and, given the loadings on that line, not at all down to lack of demand. I’m sure there are many similar examples.

 

[RAPC]

Northern can’t even operate a Sunday service on the lines they are supposed to, so not much chance of them adding new ones in any time soon.

Another Sunday of 2 hour+ additional journey times from my station thanks to services cancelled and just replacement bus services instead. No wonder nobody even bothers to use the services now on a Sunday after this has been happening all year.

 

[Jamesrob637]

I rarely if ever use trains on a Sunday in the UK. Abroad, at least in Europe, things are slightly better in the main.

 

[thealexweb]

I have long since given up using rail of Sundays. Bolton gets 8tph Monday to Saturday normally gets just 1tph most Sundays.

 

[Jamesrob637]

I have long since given up using rail of Sundays. Bolton gets 8tph Monday to Saturday normally gets just 1tph most Sundays.

Heaton Chapel is pathetic northbound on Sundays right now. Don't even think it's 1 per 2 hours. Southbound is 1tph - should be 2tph. But that's shocking for Bolton.

 

[Ianno87]

I have long since given up using rail of Sundays. Bolton gets 8tph Monday to Saturday normally gets just 1tph most Sundays.

Isn't that just the consequence of the current (long running) train crew issues - it's not the service it's 'supposed' to have.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Ormskirk - Preston and the Wigan - Kirkby lines are local to me and has never had a Sunday service barring one day in 2016 IIRC. I'm sure we could populate this thread with more examples across the country but I ask is it acceptable to still have No Sunday Services any more?

No, it isn't. Sunday is a normal shopping day and also the day when families whose parents don't work take days out - without a rail service they're doing it by car.

A different timetable is probably justified, as the shopping day is compressed - so a late start and a thin service on local routes before about 1000 and after about 1900 is probably justified. But not an early finish, as that causes issues for those who have been away somewhere and are coming back with the last bit on the local route.

Interestingly Northern had agreed, I understand, to trial a Sunday service on the Ormskirk-Preston line, but then the dispute and timetable/crewing issues caused them to knock it on the head.

My opinions only. Bedford to Bletchley would never warrant a Sunday service. Without going into loads of timetables I sure there are lines that need a Sunday service.

It does justify one (at least as much as it justifies one on any other day ) on three grounds:
1. Sunday is a shopping day;
2. Connectivity - it's a useful link between the WCML and MML in both directions, which is useless for a weekend away if you can't use it to get home on Sunday;
3. It goes through some fairly nice places which are popular for people going walking etc, which is a pursuit often (if not primarily) undertaken on Sundays.

If anything I reckon you'd get more custom on a Sunday between about 1100 and 1600 than you would in the same time range on a typical weekday.

 

[radamfi]

I rarely if ever use trains on a Sunday in the UK. Abroad, at least in Europe, things are slightly better in the main.

In countries that use clock-face scheduling, longer distance trains tend to run same frequency every day, usually at the same minutes past each hour. Local trains tend to run around half the weekday frequency.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In countries that use clock-face scheduling, longer distance trains tend to run same frequency every day, usually at the same minutes past each hour. Local trains tend to run around half the weekday frequency.

Roughly how it is on the south WCML. VT operate pretty much the same timetable as weekdays (but no peak extras and probably a later start), LNR operate a reduced timetable though it's slowly grown over time not to be as reduced as half.

 

[ComUtoR]

No, it isn't. Sunday is a normal shopping day

Stores still have restricted hours. Sunday is not 'normal' Should the railway also have restricted hours too ?

1. Sunday is a shopping day;

Sunday is also considered to be 'a day of rest'

If you wish to base Sunday services on retail, then maybe the retail sector should fund it.

 

[Mag_seven]

Stores still have restricted hours.

Not in Scotland they don't!

Sunday is also considered to be 'a day of rest'

Says who?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Stores still have restricted hours. Sunday is not 'normal' Should the railway also have restricted hours too ?

Yes, you'll see I've suggested that a shorter "peak" day makes sense, because most demand is squashed into a 6 hour period rather than one closer to 12 hours on a weekday or Saturday.

Sunday is also considered to be 'a day of rest'

By followers of one major religion which, in the UK at least, is in substantial decline.

For followers of another religion, it's Saturday. And for followers of another - one that is growing somewhat - it's Friday.

If you wish to base Sunday services on retail, then maybe the retail sector should fund it.

Retail pays taxes, and isn't the idea getting cars off the road?

 

[gledhill56]

Huddersfield to Wakefield has never had a Sunday service as far as I can remember.

 

[Bletchleyite]

FWIW the one I was surprised about (which was good, as there is only one time I've ever wanted to use it and it was on a Sunday) was that the Barton on Humber branch has a Sunday service.

 

[faltskog36abba]

Northern mentioned a year or so ago that it intended to run a Sunday service from Stalybridge to Wigan north western, However its all gone quiet regarding that proposal.

 

[PHILIPE]

TFW are introducing a Maesteg service on Sundays from December and are extending Llandudno and Blaenau Ffestiniog services to run all the year round rather than just in the Summer

 

[Banfurlong]

I don't know those lines in any detail, but I suppose it should be on a case-by-case basis. Are the intermediate populations on those lines served by bus on Sundays? But even the Heart of Wales has a service, of sorts! So maybe they should have a claim.

What does amaze me is the differences in provision. I think Cambridge - Ipswich is hourly for most of Sunday, same as a weekday, just doesn't start so early. Sunday trains start from Yeovil Jcn at something like 07.xx - while other locations have nothing until 11.00.

For many years I hoped that some sort of Sunday service could be provided on the Cumbrian Coast - perhaps four trains each way per day, or some such - then Northern introduce a near hourly timetable, though again, understandably not starting so early as on a weekday. (I suppose the theory there is, if you are going to open all the boxes, might as well provide a decent service. Still a pleasant suprise though.)

Against this example, we have the G&SW which Scotrail seems to disown between Dumfries and Kilmarnock on the Sabbath.

NB, all these comments are from memory, and might be in error.

No bus service on Sunday between Preston and Ormskirk, Burscough village population is growing all the time, and the only public transport is Southport Wigan by train and bus covers Burscough retail park from Southport to Wigan via Ormskirk.

 

[Bovverboy]

I have long since given up using rail of Sundays. Bolton gets 8tph Monday to Saturday normally gets just 1tph most Sundays.

To count 8tph (each way) you need to include the TPE Scottish services, which are pick-up or set-down only, and they don't all stop at Bolton. All the same, if you're including the TPEs on Monday to Saturday you should include them on Sundays as well, so the usual Sunday service atm is 3tph each way - the TPE, 1tph Manchester Airport (or Oxford Road) - Blackpool North, and 1tph Manchester Victoria - Clitheroe.

Isn't that just the consequence of the current (long running) train crew issues - it's not the service it's 'supposed' to have.

But for the present staff shortages the Sunday service would presumably be 5tph each way - the above, plus 1tph Manchester Victoria - Blackpool North, and 1tph Stalybridge - Wigan North Western.

 

[StoneRoad]

Sunday is no longer the "day of rest" it once was, maybe it should be treated more like Saturday if not the same as any other day of the week.

I for one would use the trains far more if I could, but as I often have to be back home by Sunday night, ready for the following week. I can spend most of Sunday travelling, for trips I can do by car in under 95 minutes or say 4hours for the longer one.

 

[WatcherZero]

Part of the Northern bid was to run 400 more Sunday services but at the moment at least its doubtful they have the resources or union support to implement that.

 

[Comstock]

The hourly -ish Sunday service between Derby and Brum gets absolutely rammed to the point of very little room to stand.

I really think it's time to introduce something approaching a full service on a Sunday, at least on my particular line.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The hourly -ish Sunday service between Derby and Brum gets absolutely rammed to the point of very little room to stand.

I really think it's time to introduce something approaching a full service on a Sunday, at least on my particular line.

Or at least longer trains where feasible, rather than using Sunday as a maintenance day and having everything as minimum formations.