I am sure this must have been covered before, but are suicides on the railways becoming more common or is it just the 24/7 media coverage and modern technology reporting making it seem that way. If it is the case that they are more common then why ? Railways have been around for many years so why have they become a more "popular" way to kill yourself than say the 50s, 60s or 70s. Jumping in front of trains would of been just as effective in any other era as the present day one.
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Are suicides on the railways more common these days?
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Y Ddraig Coch
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I too have wondered this also.
I would think a bottle of booze and a silly amount of pills would put you to sleep and you just wouldn't wake up. A much more private and dignified way to slip away.
The actual to determination of some people to decide to do it in front of a train is quite something. When the moment comes to actually go ahead and do it in front of a speeding train must take some steely determination at the final moment. I hope I never get that desperate that is the only way I can see out.
A friend of the family of the family is a driver and unfortunately hit someone a couple of years a go . He said they just looked like a spotter in a usual spotter location on a fast long open stretch of track, as the train approached he just kneeled down between the rails and sat and looked at him.
For obvious reasons he took a little time off after that. He had been driving over 20 years without incident until that day. He wont ever forget that.
Some people say the person committing the act is selfish but if they don't or cant think and care for their own life we cant expect them to care about anyone else either I suppose.
Very sad for all involved
I would think a bottle of booze and a silly amount of pills would put you to sleep and you just wouldn't wake up. A much more private and dignified way to slip away.
The actual to determination of some people to decide to do it in front of a train is quite something. When the moment comes to actually go ahead and do it in front of a speeding train must take some steely determination at the final moment. I hope I never get that desperate that is the only way I can see out.
A friend of the family of the family is a driver and unfortunately hit someone a couple of years a go . He said they just looked like a spotter in a usual spotter location on a fast long open stretch of track, as the train approached he just kneeled down between the rails and sat and looked at him.
For obvious reasons he took a little time off after that. He had been driving over 20 years without incident until that day. He wont ever forget that.
Some people say the person committing the act is selfish but if they don't or cant think and care for their own life we cant expect them to care about anyone else either I suppose.
Very sad for all involved
A lot of work has been done to try to reduce suicides in recent years.
A quick Google search reveals several threads, including Railway Suicide, Is it becoming more of an issue? (among others)
I'm not saying it isn't true but do you have a source for that statement?
There was a marked increase around London upto 2014 I think - it was mentioned in the various reports and became quite a problem with measures being taken in several areas. It seems to have tailed-off with less opportunity possibly being a factor. The numbers are covered in one of the ORR reports.
Y Ddraig Coch
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He did previously ask "are" not "they are " becoming more popular and mentioned the social and 24/7 media world we live in.
I dont think he needs a source for a question.
It isnt an easy issue to discuss.
One of the areas to point out is that it is more difficult to undertake an act of self harm in what you may perceive to be that way. Weve changed the content of fuel, placed pills in blister packs and reduced the number bought in each transaction and changed the make up of gas.
Y Ddraig Coch
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All very true, I find this forum very afraid to discuss issues like this, which is sad, as some of the most experienced , knowledgeable people that could give input are here.
Busaholic
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There has been a significant increase in suicide figures over the last 25 years overall in the UK, even though individual years may sometimes show small decreases on the previous year, and figures vary between different countries of the UK, so if the number of suicides on the railway has increased it reflects the national trend. Males are still much more highly represented than females, though I think the proportions have changed over the years.
2015-16 there were 278 suicides, less than the high of 308 the year prior. However, this is higher than 2002-3 when it was 220. So it's not massively higher in recent years, but has unfortunately grown steadily until last year.
ORR Rail Safety Statistics: http://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/22876/rail-safety-statistics-2015-16.pdf
ORR Rail Safety Statistics: http://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/22876/rail-safety-statistics-2015-16.pdf
A few years ago I remember attending a lecture called "how to commit suicide" - it was a work thing.
The doctor delivering the talk made the point that unless you know what you're doing, pills are quite an unreliable method, as is slitting the wrists. He recommended jumping in front of a high speed train, or hanging as the means most likely to be, erm, successful I suppose is the word.
I've no evidence for this, but I do wonder whether the increase in reporting of suicides on the media, and availability of 'how to' information on the internet, hasn't made more people realise what I was told in that lecture, and led to an increase in railway suicides.
PS: it was actually a really fun lecture... though I accept that might not quite come across!
The doctor delivering the talk made the point that unless you know what you're doing, pills are quite an unreliable method, as is slitting the wrists. He recommended jumping in front of a high speed train, or hanging as the means most likely to be, erm, successful I suppose is the word.
I've no evidence for this, but I do wonder whether the increase in reporting of suicides on the media, and availability of 'how to' information on the internet, hasn't made more people realise what I was told in that lecture, and led to an increase in railway suicides.
PS: it was actually a really fun lecture... though I accept that might not quite come across!
Joe Paxton
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Another factor is that the media are careful about reporting suicides, as thoughtless reporting is thought to contribute to imitative behaviour - see for example the Samaritans’ Media Guidelines for Reporting Suicide.
Open forums on the internet are obviously not subject to the same editorial decision making process.
Y Ddraig Coch
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Joe Paxton
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I didn't say that.
scotraildriver
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Another issue we are having in Scotland is a massive increase in the amount of suicides occurring at stations and at peak times. Previously they tended to take place in remoter areas but the ever increasing use of security fencing to deter trespassers is driving people to stations. This of course results in many people witnessing a quite horrific event whilst simply going about their daily business. There may not be a huge increase in the numbers but we are seeing a big increase in the number of people affected by these acts.
theironroad
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Anecdotally, I think on swr(Swt) it's been declining. Partly due to some physical improvements at hotspots but also due to the TOC/Samaritans/unions training of some staff to spot potential suicidal people. Having said that, I know of 2 drivers who have had suicide fatalities in the last 6 months.
theironroad
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Interesting. What you post makes me recall a suicide at a platform with a 90mph line speed. The train was doing linespeed as it passed and very unfortunately there was a party of primary age school kids on the platform waiting the next train. The physical aftermath was traumatic for all concerned.
As I understand it men are more likely to resort to violent forms of suicide as they are more "successful".
I'm not sure how much more dignified this would be, some people end up in hospital after overdosing, change their mind when their family are with them and then their organs fail. Too late. For most people there is no dignity in death, you go out like you came in, kicking and screaming (I mean perhaps in a metaphorical sense).
I'm not sure how much more dignified this would be, some people end up in hospital after overdosing, change their mind when their family are with them and then their organs fail. Too late. For most people there is no dignity in death, you go out like you came in, kicking and screaming (I mean perhaps in a metaphorical sense).
Y Ddraig Coch
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Quite possibly correct, I can only hypothesize as someone who unfortunately has come too close to this situation and doesn't understand or have any answers.
But if you felt that sad, lonely you would assume nobody would find you or care so lock your door do your thing and go to "sleep" quietly , well that would be your plan. "easiest way"
The determination to actually at the moment you see a a speeding train , put yourself in front of it, must take some doing even at your lowest point. Mentally gone past any normal reasoning.
Everyone should have someone....
The numbers haven't declined anywhere in any way that is statistically significant, so it isn't possible to attribute this reduction to either physical improvements or (particularly, and I went into this on another thread in more detail) training of staff. There's no reliable evidence to show that training of staff has made any difference at all. It could just be a normal fluctuation.
Paracetamol poisoning is a particularly horrific way to die as the organs fail over a period of a couple of weeks, and it's extremely painful as well. If you survice it you can be left with ongoing chronic health problems as well.
Your point is broadly correct. There are more attempts by women than men, but often these take the form of overdoses, cutting etc and often these aren't real attempts, it's what's known as para-suicide, a cry for help, if you want to look at it like that. Men are more likely to complete as they use methods like firearms (particularly farmers and vets, who have easy access), drugs that kill quickly (vets again, with ketamine in overdose, and doctors/dentists as they know what will work) and then physical methods like hanging or jumping in front of trains, HGVs etc. Interestingly jumping from height is more 50/50 male/female.
shredder1
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Technology and greed has speeded life up much faster than human evolution can cope, this is I`m sure is a contributing factor, the rise in mental health issues, (and the Government`s lack of help), must surely significantly contribute to this rise in suicides.
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Knowing that a train cannot swerve nor stop on a sixpence makes it about the surest way to die, even if it is not actually sure.
The only way to change the consequences is to find a way to stop people thinking they want to die, like the Samaritans are trying to do, and as we should all do. Unfortunately, by the time people show suicide thoughts, they often have stopped talking (intelligably or at all) to others.
The only way to change the consequences is to find a way to stop people thinking they want to die, like the Samaritans are trying to do, and as we should all do. Unfortunately, by the time people show suicide thoughts, they often have stopped talking (intelligably or at all) to others.
AlterEgo
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Mmmmm, not necessarily.
A few years back Chris Gibb conducted a report into suicides on the WCML which fed into a wider report. One of the principal findings was that when opportunities for suicide were removed (for example, by fencing), the suicidal person did not then usually seek another method by which to kill themselves. The conclusion was that better fencing and visual cues didn't just prevent railway suicides, but actually saved lives in the long run.
You could just go into several shops and buy pills until you had enough should you wish to do so. I think it's just that jumping from a great height or in front of a fast moving train is certain to succeed.
I was lucky I think. I first had suicidal thoughts when I was at Uni. I told a group of friends in Halls of Residence and they were amazing. They took me down to the welfare office and a lady there drove me up to the medical centre. I saw a doctor right away and moved in to the medical centre for a month. I called my mum and told her what was going on which was the hardest call I ever made. She got the coach up to Bradford and stayed in my room in Halls for a short while. It was a bizarre time but it gave me the breathing space I needed and pulled me back from the edge. I had amazing support from the University, my family and friends and the NHS. That was some twenty years back, I fear for people going through that now.
Not supported by any available evidence unfortunately, particularly regarding the number of deaths on railways as part of the whole. There hasn't been a statistically significant change for a number of years.
AlterEgo
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I am sure this was substantiated at the time with statistics - it was a significant piece of work which generated a lot of chatter when I worked for VTWC.
However, I can't find a link to the report (it was a subsidiary study which fed into recommendations in this report).
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