There is a lot of talk of death by railway being a wrong place wrong time way of going. It takes no effort and can be done very suddenly on the spur of the moment. Take someone who is in a dark place and put them in a position where those few minutes of dark thought coincide with the passing of a high speed train and its all they need. Many other "methods" take preparation and that can sometimes be enough for someone to think again. So stopping someone from going under a train could well save their life in the long term.
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Are suicides on the railways more common these days?
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Decades ago, suicide by gas poisoning was common but is almost unknown these days due to the use of natural gas which is non toxic. As others have said, potentially dangerous medicines are sold in smaller pack sizes.
Firearms are tightly controlled these days, but decades ago many war trophies lurked in homes. Shotguns are fairly easy to obtain lawfully, but must be kept under lock and key, thereby restricting suicidal use to the owner rather than anyone who happens to know where the gun is kept.
The general use of RCDs renders suicide by electric shock unreliable.
So that leaves jumping under a train, at least as effective as in years gone by.
Whilst many train services are not as fast or as frequent as some of us would prefer, speeds and frequencies have generally increased, making it a more attractive option.
I also wonder if modern CCTV and forensic science has increased the reported suicide rate, by proving suicide in cases that might have been considered an accident decades ago.
Firearms are tightly controlled these days, but decades ago many war trophies lurked in homes. Shotguns are fairly easy to obtain lawfully, but must be kept under lock and key, thereby restricting suicidal use to the owner rather than anyone who happens to know where the gun is kept.
The general use of RCDs renders suicide by electric shock unreliable.
So that leaves jumping under a train, at least as effective as in years gone by.
Whilst many train services are not as fast or as frequent as some of us would prefer, speeds and frequencies have generally increased, making it a more attractive option.
I also wonder if modern CCTV and forensic science has increased the reported suicide rate, by proving suicide in cases that might have been considered an accident decades ago.
I'm dubious about the methodology for something that states they wouldn't have found an alternative method with fencing in situ, because that would involve in depth interviews with suicide by train survivors in large numbers to get anything meaningful (into the hundreds and I suspect there aren't that many) and also it's not possible to ask people who have successfully committed suicide what they would have done if fences had been in place, which is the more useful information.
It's very difficult to get meaningful data regarding suicides and means of prevention precisely because the best people able to inform the research aren't around any more. Happy to be corrected if you can find a link to the research that supports it but people who intend to kill themselves tend to find other ways if one way is unavailable.
There hasn't been a significant rise in suicides from recent data, including under trains, the trend has been slightly down over the last 15-20 yrs. The actual rate is probably higher than the stats say as Coroners will try to give verdicts other than suicide except where it's very clear that intent existed and this mainly stems back to when insurance wouldn't pay out for suicides (many policies still won't). I've seen a number of cases where open, narrative or misadventure verdicts have been passed for what seems like, on the face of it, a suicide.
WelshBluebird
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Tbh I am not really sure how much difference those limits actually make. Most places have at least a couple of shops within a very short walk. If you really wanted to then you would easily be able to.
nottsnurse
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As a Critical Care nurse, and as such someone who often cares for those who've taken overdoses, I can tell you that it is far from reliable and as a result is far from private and dignified. The most common medication we see taken for attempted overdoses (Paracetamol) often leaves patients with life-changing injures, most commonly liver damage.
I'm not aware of statistics regarding increases in suicides on the railway, but with webites such as lostallhope.com recommending it over some other common methods, I can see it being so.
UK - Suicide Benchmarking
http://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/19578/railway-safety-benchmarking-october-2015.pdf
- Section includes an interesting European League table
Annual Safety Report
http://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/25229/annual-health-and-safety-report-july-2017.pdf
- Item 14 - figures for 2015-16 and 2016-17
With the overall fall in the total numbers of suicides (which isn’t statistically significant in itself) the fall in rail suicides is so small that it doesn’t allow any conclusions to be drawn from it. The fall needs to be larger and over a longer period of time.
It is fall (see OP), and I think it is significant less than the IIRC close to 400 in earlier periods shortly after 2008/2010.
There is the Data Portal if the OP wants to investigate further.
There were just under 200 in 2008, slightly over 200 suicides by rail in 2010 and 237 in 2012, so if anything it’s been a rising trend. And my error a rise of 50 in 5 yrs is significant.
The OP is welcome to investigate the available data.
Islineclear3_1
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The incidence of anxiety and depressive disorders is rising.
I remember an incident at Canterbury East around last Christmas when I saw a young bloke jump the fence, walk towards the line whilst telling someone on his mobile that he was gonna jump in front of the next train. Urgent call to police and getting the power switched off and getting thoroughly soaked to the bone during the process of talking him out of it and leading him to safety
I remember an incident at Canterbury East around last Christmas when I saw a young bloke jump the fence, walk towards the line whilst telling someone on his mobile that he was gonna jump in front of the next train. Urgent call to police and getting the power switched off and getting thoroughly soaked to the bone during the process of talking him out of it and leading him to safety
61653 HTAFC
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Many people who attempt suicide and aren't successful realise that they actually don't want to end their lives and (according to links posted upthread) often won't attempt again. If you have to tour several shops in order to acquire what you think will be enough paracetamol (and on this point I speak from experience) then you have more time to have second thoughts. Of course if someone is really determined then they'll find a way around any rules, but if it prevents some deaths then it's a good thing.
With regard to that point about the significant drop-off of attempts after an unsuccessful one, this may be down to the fact that if someone has needed police or medical intervention, they may then be fast-tracked towards the help that they need. This is rather a damning indictment of mental health services and possibly contributes to a rise in apparent attempts, but I appreciate that this is off-topic for this particular thread.
Busaholic
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This is only anecdotal, as I never worked on the railway proper, but I do remember a fair number of people jumping in front of tube trains when I was based on the Northern/Victoria lines. I deliberately don't use the word suicide because a few of those people survived, although horribly mutilated sometimes.
Maybe I'm a bit cynical but sounds like he was trying to emotionally blackmail whoever was on the other end of the phone, girlfriend perhaps?
ralphchadkirk
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I believe the evidence indicates that there are now more survivors with life changing disability than deaths from jumping in front of tube trains.
Well it looks like she was having none of it and told him to get on with it.
What makes you think the incidence of anxiety and depressive disorders is rising and why ?
Wouldn’t a percentage of population be a better measure of increase or decrease. I’m not going to research numbers but I remember a time when there were 56 million people in the UK, there’s now over 70 million. You would expect, just by the law of averages, that the suicide numbers would increase. But a percentage would show if people were, in general, more or less depressed/willing to take their own life.
However, I’m no statistician so I’m more than happy to be corrected.
However, I’m no statistician so I’m more than happy to be corrected.
Are the incidences of depression and anxiety rising, or it is just that society as a whole is beginning to better deal with those particular illnesses when previously they would have been swept under the carpet and not acknowledged at all? Having researched my family history, it's both interesting and quite upsetting to look at census records to see that someone was recorded at a particular address as "imbecile". Were they mentally unstable, severely depressed, or perhaps just someone who had learning difficulties?
Even in this day and age, medical opinions vary drastically, and while some doctors are more aware of certain conditions, there are quite a few who will dismiss you, saying that there's nothing actually wrong with you - even in the same medical practice. I was told on one occasion that I (not in so many words) needed to grow a pair, while the doctor I saw afterwards was so concerned that the first thing she did was checked my blood pressure!
Perhaps we are suffering more from depression and anxiety. I'm no statistician either, but the world I live in now is vastly different to the one that I was brought up in. My grandparents went through WW2, and my parents were born in the late 1940s. It was reasonable to expect a job for life, and that you could progress up the chain if you worked hard enough. It was reasonable to expect that you'd have a decent place to live, regardless of how far down that chain you were. Now all of that is gone, and we wonder why people might be going slightly crazy?
Having once almost witnessed (fortunately I had just happened to look in the other direction a second or two before) a person jump off the platform in front of a high speed train, it was most unpleasant for my colleague who actually saw it happen and was no doubt extremely distressful for the driver of the train involved. It also would have been very unpleasant for the BTP and Network Rail etc who had to then 'deal with' the deceased.
That was at Northallerton on the ECML where non stopping trains pass through at high speed. At the time, it seemed a somewhat common event at that location.
The number of such incidents has led to posters going up on the station giving details of agencies to contact. Also tabard wearing members of the Samaritans are also on the platform at various times. The unfortunate thing about this is they seem to aproach anyone who walks over the yellow line on the platform to look down the straght track to see where the train is (as people often do whilst waiting for a late running train). However, on balance, rather that than the 'other'.
That was at Northallerton on the ECML where non stopping trains pass through at high speed. At the time, it seemed a somewhat common event at that location.
The number of such incidents has led to posters going up on the station giving details of agencies to contact. Also tabard wearing members of the Samaritans are also on the platform at various times. The unfortunate thing about this is they seem to aproach anyone who walks over the yellow line on the platform to look down the straght track to see where the train is (as people often do whilst waiting for a late running train). However, on balance, rather that than the 'other'.
70014IronDuke
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Suicide rates (at least in Europe) are measured in deaths per 100,000 population, that is, they make comparable figures for each country independent of population.
The UK is actually quite a 'good performing' country within the EU + Associated area regarding LOW suicide rate. The average in the EU in 2014 was 11 per 100,000. The UK was at 7.
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/DDN-20170517-1
Some of the former communist bloc countries, along with ex-Yugoslavia, perform "badly" - although Bulgaria manages to come in under the average. (at 10), and Romania is at 11. Intriguingly, Slovenia the wealthiest of all the former Socialist country, has a very high sucicide rate.
The Latin countries appear to "do well" - maybe this is to do with the "manjana" effect, ie who cares, don't worry - or maybe its stronger family ties or maybe they don't attribute all the deaths they should do to suicide.
And maybe it's just down to nicer weather, with far less influence from long, dark winter nights - which I hear has a big effect in Scandinavia.
At a meeting of suicide prevention professional that I went to some years ago, it was stressed how suicides tend to mimic one another, and how important it was for the media not to mention details such as the location - as this tended to attract more 'copy-cat' attempts. Obviously, if a certain rail location starts to get a name, "word spreads" - rather like a perverse advertising or marketing campaign.
highspeed990
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I agree with Sussex guy. Someone serious about sucide just gets on with it. This was an attention seeking selfish moron performing blackmail or simply wanted to get attention. They hold everyone up when they close the railway down too. It's best that people like this are ignored, they'll soon leave when they realise no one will give them what they want.
Unfortunately truly suicidal people often can't be helped as they've made up their mind and don't tell anyone.
Well I'm sorry but I disagree with both of you. You clearly have no concept of how mental health functions. This kind of attitude is part of the reason that society has mental health problems in the first place.
highspeed990
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Don't need to be a psychology major to understand peoples' intentions. He was relying on his plan of blackmail to work so had no intention of committing suicide. Same goes for people who just want to make a scene. You ever see on the news 'Man dies after strangers pleading with him not to jump' Or 'Man dies after wife refuses his demands' No, it's always 'Man found dead, police believe suicide was the cause'.
These people do have mental disorders, you're right. They are psychopaths and love upsetting people to get their way, but they aren't suicidal.
You've just called me a psychopath.
Bromley boy
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Do you know what a psychopath actually is?
It’s absolutely nothing to do with what you’ve described.
highspeed990
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I haven't. I've said psychopathy is the mental disorder these people have.
If I remember correctly, yes you're right, not all psychopaths are bad people or have anything wrong with them, it becomes a disorder when you're willing to upset people this much to get what you want.
Yet you know nothing about me. At times in the last 5 years I have had suicidal thoughts. I have stood at the end of a platform and wondered what it might feel like. I'm on medication now, but I can assure you that I was not in any way psycopathic. I'm thankful to my friends and family for their support, otherwise I may well have been another statistic.
highspeed990
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But did you stand in a way that makes it obvious, announcing to everyone around you, and phone up your loved ones to announce? No, because you're not a psychopath. You were actually considering it, and I'm glad you got help. The people I am referring to are not suicidal.
Exactly that, just about everytime there is a 'stand off' it has a happy ending, ok there may be the odd exception, but normally the police talk them down etc etc although reality is that they never had any intentions of jumping.
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