Are there any geographically accurate rail & tube map with fare zones available?

miklcct

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I want to use a geographically accurate tube map instead of a schematic one such that I can better plan my journey without exaggerating the distance, especially in the outer areas where the distances are much longer than I think.

The closest I can find is the May 2014 one but without zone information on map, and also one on Wikipedia but with only the tube but not national rail services. Are there any such maps available which includes all rail lines (underground, DLR, tram, national rail) with zones in scale?
 
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rebmcr

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Here is one from a previous version of Wikipedia's page about the London Underground (the current London Underground page features a geo map with no zones):


Edit: Sorry, just re-read your post and realised you already have this one. I've never seen one with National Rail as you describe.
 

The exile

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Obviously less of a problem now you fan “zoom in” online - but the problem with a geographically accurate map is that at a scale that gives clarity in zone 1 ( think if all the station names) - the map itself has to be huge and very “wasteful” at the outer extremities.
It also raises all kinds of questions about how geographically accurate sprawling z1 tube stations need to be!
 

bb21

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A geographically accurate map is a very niche product, as passengers generally only care about journey time or fare, or a combination of the two, not distance travelled.
 

miklcct

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A geographically accurate map is a very niche product, as passengers generally only care about journey time or fare, or a combination of the two, not distance travelled.
There is a large relation between journey time and distance combined with number of stops. A schematic map distorts large distances.
 

bb21

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There is a large relation between journey time and distance combined with number of stops. A schematic map distorts large distances.
That is what a journey planner is for.
 

miklcct

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That is what a journey planner is for.
A journey planner only works if I know the start and destination in advance. If I'm planning a day trip with a few points I want to visit but without particular order, a schematic map will be misleading when trying to find an optimal route and order between the places I want to visit. Also, a geographic map can help me to decide if using the railways are really a good option or should I try to find buses for the trip instead of making a large detour on the railway, but a schematic map hides the distances.

Obviously less of a problem now you fan “zoom in” online - but the problem with a geographically accurate map is that at a scale that gives clarity in zone 1 ( think if all the station names) - the map itself has to be huge and very “wasteful” at the outer extremities.
It also raises all kinds of questions about how geographically accurate sprawling z1 tube stations need to be!
In such case a geographical map is better for us to decide if the distances are so short that it's actually walkable or better to take a bus for a few stops instead of taking time to go underground to take the tube.
 

bb21

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Google maps is pretty good these days if you want to figure out an optimum route between various points including all transport options, not just the Tube and National Rail.
 

PeterC

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I would just use an OS map, cross referencing to a schematic if I wasn't sure which line a station was on.
 

rebmcr

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The closest I can find is the May 2014 one but without zone information on map
I think manually adding the zones to this map will be the easiest way to achieve what you want. It's not particularly intricate nor challenging, because you get to place the lines wherever you want (as long as they go between 'edge' stations, and directly through the boundary stations).
 

Busaholic

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A shame the all-London bus map is no longer available, because the correct position of all the stations were marked on there, though without zone classifications of course: you'd need a bus map of the central London area too. You might, of course, just decide to jump on a bus if you've got the odd two hours to spend in jams!
 

Snow1964

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I suspect the mayors office would rather it was not produced, especially after moving some stations between zones.

You would expect concentric rings, but will find some real anomalies like Lewisham, Battersea, Loughton etc and the zigzag of the boundary lines will make some people feel ripped off.

Bus maps until about 15-20 years ago were very clear as the zones were coloured, but once they effectively dropped zones for buses and went flat fare they vanished. It didn’t really cover anywhere outside old zone 6. I have an old fold out one but obviously can’t link it here.
 

The exile

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I would just use an OS map, cross referencing to a schematic if I wasn't sure which line a station was on.
Or, for a built up area, a street map book (A - Z). Mine has now lost the outside cover with the tube map on it, so I don't know if it had the zones on it (I doubt it) - but they're easy enough to cross-reference - and if you're going to reach daily cap / travelcard usage, all you need to know is the zone of your furthest destination. Without being flippant - if you're visiting London "for pleasure", the difference in price of the day ticket for 1 - 6 and 1-4 for a couple of days is not that great in the grand scheme of everything else you're likely to be spending. Obviously different if a much longer period is involved.
Think the best (or worst) trap on the schematic map was probably the "Temple to Aldwych" challenge. How many times could you walk between the two stations in the time it took for someone to enter one and leave the other?
 

evergreenadam

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I suspect the mayors office would rather it was not produced, especially after moving some stations between zones.

You would expect concentric rings, but will find some real anomalies like Lewisham, Battersea, Loughton etc and the zigzag of the boundary lines will make some people feel ripped off.

Bus maps until about 15-20 years ago were very clear as the zones were coloured, but once they effectively dropped zones for buses and went flat fare they vanished. It didn’t really cover anywhere outside old zone 6. I have an old fold out one but obviously can’t link it here.
Which stations moved?

I know of Kennington, Stratford, West Ham and Canning Town.
 

MikeWh

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Over time lots have. Several branches which extended beyond zone 6 had the boundary moved to include them (eg Caterham, Tatenham Corner, Epsom Downs, Epping. Zone 4 was expanded both ways to encompass the whole of the Hainault loop.
 

AlbertBeale

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Over time lots have. Several branches which extended beyond zone 6 had the boundary moved to include them (eg Caterham, Tatenham Corner, Epsom Downs, Epping. Zone 4 was expanded both ways to encompass the whole of the Hainault loop.

I remember Hampstead Heath, on the NLL, being shifted from Zone 2 to Zone 3 years back (even though other stations in both directions stayed in Z2), so as to get extra revenue from the increasing numbers of people using that line. (Though it's back in Z2 again now.) However, if I was using a Z1/Z2 travelcard in those days, and ever wanted to use that stretch of the NLL, I'd carry a bus map with me which still showed Hampstead as being in Z2, as justification for my use of that ticket through HH. After all, geography is geography, isn't it?? Why would I imagine Hampstead could suddenly have been "moved"?? [I know geography isn't sacrosanct, of course, when it comes to playing with fare income!]
 

pukka200

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etr221

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I can't help you with the fare zones, but the "secret" TfL geographic connections map is still very useful: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/224813/response/560395/attach/3/London Connections Map.pdf

I also use use CartoMetro https://cartometro.com/cartes/metro-tram-london/ since it shows the real location of stations and platforms, so its useful if you're happy to walk between stations to change lines.
There are also also a set of - now rather ageing - Underground line maps overprinted on OS maps, at https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/237160/response/587633/attach/3/UndergroundMaps.pdf, see https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/lul_route_maps#outgoing-402314
 

BluePenguin

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The “Transport” option on Apple Maps shows all the rail and tube lines exactly as they are in real life, curves and everything
 

greyman42

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You could just buy the Great Britain and Ireland Rail Atlas for the lines but obviously there is no fare information.
 

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