Are there police officers on a lot of trains??

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by Class 33, 24 May 2015.

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  1. Class 33

    Class 33 Established Member

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    I notice on some train services during the announements it says "If you see anything suspicious, please report it to a train manager or a police officer.". Are there actually police officers on these trains, and if so so where are they located? Because the announcer doesn't say in which carriage they are located. So if anyone does see anything suspicious and they're on an 8 carriage train, how are they supposed to know where to find these police officers?

    Just wondering that's all. Never seen anything suspicious myself.
     
  2. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Member

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    Every now and again you will see BTP on a train.
     
  3. Bevan Price

    Bevan Price Established Member

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    Particularly if there is a football match in the areas served by the train..........
     
  4. Sleepy

    Sleepy Member

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    A surprising number of Met. / City of London officers commute in from home counties by train, is always funny to see scrotes faces when a warrant card is flashed in their faces if a heated discussion is taking place regarding ticket or lack of with the guard !
     
  5. Quakkerillo

    Quakkerillo Member

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    Football trains could do with some BTP. Two years ago, due to a technical problem with the Aberdeen-London football fan train (England-Scotland) my East Coast Edinburgh-London had seat reservations annulled, and all the football fans were thrown onto our train. Outright mess. Loud, drunken, rowdy men with very loud music (a stereo speaker, the size of a whole seat was on the seat right behind me). Woman next to me was quite scared, many people on intermediate stations decided to not get on, and wait for the next service.
    But nowhere during that journey did any member of staff or BTP turn up. I also would've waited for another service, if it weren't that this was the only good train to connect at Newark for a train to Lincoln.
     
  6. Class 33

    Class 33 Established Member

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    I'm pretty sure it says that announcement on every First Great Western HST service. I'm sure I heard it on a Virgin Trains East Coast service last month too. So they say "please report it to a police officer" on every service then even if there isn't actually a police officer onboard?

    What gets me also is the announcements say "If you see any unattended items...". But they could have been just momentarily left there on their seat by a person on there own who has just gone up to the toilet or buffet, and purposely left their jacket and/or bag on their seat in case someone else takes their seat!
     
    Last edited: 24 May 2015
  7. EM2

    EM2 Established Member

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  8. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    Every time there's been an incident on a train, there's been an off duty (or plain clothed) officer on it. Once when a fight broke out and a lady officer came in to try and calm things down, and again when the driver asked if there was a police officer onboard to deal with someone who wouldn't get off and was playing by the doors - and clearly on drugs or something from his behaviour.

    More recently, I found a phone on a train. I asked if it belonged to anyone and then started to see if I could get a phone number ('ICE' etc), when a man sitting opposite produced a warrant card and said he'd be able to help.

    Which was good as the last time I handed a phone in, and got a number to contact so I could say where I'd handed it in, she contacted me later to say it wasn't there and they'd denied I'd handed it in! Nice to see you can trust staff (this was a LUL window at Stratford), and not nice that it then looked like I'd perhaps lied and kept it.

    At Hatfield, I used to see a lot of people showing their warrant cards to pass the gates so knew quite a lot of police were on the trains. Some of them also used to then promptly go for the first class accommodation, which I don't think they're supposed to do but doubt any rail staff would ever have a go at them for doing, as they might need them one day!
     
  9. Saint66

    Saint66 Member

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    Couple of times I've been on a VTWC service (one or two early Sunday morning trains, in fact), and the BTP have come over the tannoy to announce that they're on board, and have said what carriage they're in and people should come down for a chat about anything. (Normally between New Street and Euston).

    Never had it on any other services/TOC though.
     
  10. LowLevel

    LowLevel Established Member

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    They get about quite regularly, in my area the local police have started travelling by train to court etc in some towns as it's more cost effective than using a police vehicle.

    If you're ever concerned about your safety and don't feel comfortable phoning you can text BTP on 61016 and they'll treat it the same as a call.
     
  11. Good Point

    Good Point Member

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    I know some superintendents who always 'upgrade' Themselves to FC, flash the warrant card and tell the train guard they're available if there's bother
     
  12. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

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    The announcement is nothing to do with police being on the train but a general announcement that if you see anything suspicious rather than ignore it or try to sort it out yourself you should approach staff or if there are none available phone the police or approach police if you can see any about.

    As for police travel, there are many off duty police as they get free travel within a certain radius. Regarding them using first class, many do but it technically isn't allowed any more than it is for railway staff to travel in there. Often a blind eye is turned to both as staff and police could potentially be useful but there are sometimes clampdowns where a TOC starts instructing guards and ticket inspectors to kick staff and police out of FC. There have also been a few instances in the past few years on my TOC of inspectors being verbally abused by off duty police (drunk) when they have been asked to vacate first class as they don't have a valid ticket to sit in there and are being rowdy etc.
     
  13. Antman

    Antman Established Member

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    I would think any police force would take a very dim view of their officers behaving in this way even if they are off duty.
     
  14. Shimbleshanks

    Shimbleshanks Member

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    Southern are always having announcements to report any suspicious bags to the Police etc. Should I tell them about the landlady in Shepherds Bush I had back in the mid-1980s? (Have you got a woman up there? Have you been using hot water again? Have you been cooking in your room...)
     
  15. 1e10

    1e10 Member

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    I wouldn't leave my bag on my seat whilst going to the toilet, mainly because I have my MacBook and iPad in it though. I do sometimes leave my jacket on the seat, I doubt that would be seen as suspicious though?
     
  16. bignosemac

    bignosemac Established Member

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    Last edited: 25 May 2015
  17. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

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    I would hate anyone to think that this is in any way an example of one law for us and one law for 'them'!
    It sounds like there were plenty of witnesses so I wonder what the excuse oops I mean reason is for dropping this case?
     
  18. Albatross

    Albatross Member

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    Supers and above are actually entitled to first class travel as part of their terms and conditions, BTP I mean, not home office.
     
  19. Antman

    Antman Established Member

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    The police seem to bend over backwards nowadays to ensure that there is never any suggestion of double standards.

    I don't know why the charge was dropped in this case but I would be pretty certain that the fact that they were police officers had no bearing at all.
     
  20. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    Do the regular police have authority on the railway or is that just BTP territory?
     
  21. Antman

    Antman Established Member

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    Yes they all have the same authority, BTP are just more specialised
     
  22. russmcp

    russmcp Member

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    We were not there so we don't know. There may have been plenty of witnesses which may have swayed towards the guards account or swayed the other way.

    Who knows. From my experience of being an ex copper, any chance the authorities have these days to set an example of rotten apples is taken and rightly so. Your generalising is your opinion of course but I've rightly seen wronguns taken through the system through to convictions.
     
  23. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    To answer the question in the thread title I'd say no, there are not police officers on a lot of trains (at least not on duty).

    But there are trains with a lot of police officers from King's Cross this evening!
    On the train I am on they have been mostly based at the Guard's office, but they have been walking up and down the train, and as I type this they have just gone for another walk up the train.
     
  24. misterredmist

    misterredmist Member

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    Yes, I know a couple of "plod" who do that on the service from Picc to
    Euston...... fair play I say....
     
  25. Andyjs247

    Andyjs247 Member

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    As I understand it there is a concessionary travel scheme available to Metropolitan Police and City of London police officers. The scheme provides a Travelcard so that officers can commute to work on National Rail services within a certain area for a small monthly cost. Officers can also travel on TfL/LOROL operated services using their warrant card.

    So there's probably quite a saving over the cost of a normal season ticket for many, making it an attractive option - plus it also helps with recruitment and retention to the force. Meanwhile the railway benefits as there are more police around to assist with any incidents than there would be otherwise (even if the police are off-duty).
     
  26. Good Point

    Good Point Member

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    I was told be a Special that showing a warrant card to get concessionary travel puts them 'on duty' so to speak. Which was why he paid the standard fare on London buses so he wasn't obliged to wade into fights between pax.
     
    Last edited: 27 May 2015
  27. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

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    That depends really. Id like to think any police would be prepared to help out when off duty rather than sit back and watch. Tht dosnt always mean wading in though.

    I wouldn't say it puts them on duty any more than rail staff are when using their travel passes. I would always help out (and have done with train faults etc on my TOC when off duty on the past) but if I've been drinking then I can still use my free travel but wouldn't help out for the simple reason that if anything went wrong I'd be identified as helping and may be Med screened leading to big problems.
     
  28. Antman

    Antman Established Member

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    I can't imagine any police officer sitting there and doing nothing just because they were off duty at the time
     
  29. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    Agreed.

    I see no problem with them getting free travel as I do believe they'd almost always step in, or at least be able to help get further help/backup, gather information etc.

    As for first class, well, perhaps that's overstepping the mark but perhaps if they give up their seat if needed by someone else then it's okay. That's obviously up to a TOC, and it seems rail staff are happy with it. Clearly those working on trains in potentially dangerous situations don't want to burn their bridges.

    But, from a PR point of view, having the police seen as abusing their powers/privileges probably isn't a good thing. (Nor, sometimes, is it wise for them to talk about certain things while travelling in a group as they don't know who is listening!!)
     
    Last edited: 27 May 2015
  30. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

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    What if they had partaken of a couple of pints?
     
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