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Are too loud and too many PRM alarms and announcements making travellers uptight.....

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Esker-pades

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Piccadilly - Don’t forget “due to today’s wet weather, please take extra care when moving around the station”, or words to that effect. Usually still being blasted out about four hours after the rain has stopped and everywhere is bone dry.
The best one was at London Bridge. The two different voices would do it at slightly different speeds and would overlap so standing on platform 3 would be like listening to children shouting over each other.
 
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mpthomson

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There might have been a minor terrorist incident on the London Underground last year (I'm guessing you mean Parsons Green) but there hasn't been a major terrorist attack on the National Rail network since...well, I can't actually find any record of one.

I can understand, given recent history, why London Transport might feel it necessary to warn passengers of suspicious items and behaviour but in other parts of the UK, such as the rural bit of Yorkshire where I commute, the chances of a terrorist attack are so miniscule as to be not worth mentioning. Hence up here the vast majority of us treat the constant "Security Services" warnings as they should be treated - with a combination of disinterest and contempt!

It was only minor as it didn't initiate correctly, if it had there would have been 50+ fatalities, it was a sizeable device and I'm sure terrorists make no differentiation between Underground and 'normal ' rail systems. If you think that was a minor incident in security terms then it shows that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. In addition another sizable and viable device was found before it was taken onto a train shortly before that. The magazines that these people read contained information after Parson's Green about how to ensure that devices initiate successfully, including some pretty pictures. To repeat mass transit systems are still an active target area for terrorists. The warnings are for people heading into major conurbations to remind them...
 

mpthomson

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This is the problem with the 'one size fits all' attitude of the train operators.

No, it isn't. Passengers frequently travel from rural Yorkshire, where I also live, into London, Manchester, Leeds etc, large conurbations that are more likely targets than Seamer, Malton etc. It's there to remind them. These things aren't just lazily announced, there's a boatload of psychology behind their launch. the fact that a load of enthusiasts who understand nothing about the actual threat (there are a couple who do) whinge about it but can happily repeat it shows it's done its job.
 

growse

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No, it isn't. Passengers frequently travel from rural Yorkshire, where I also live, into London, Manchester, Leeds etc, large conurbations that are more likely targets than Seamer, Malton etc. It's there to remind them. These things aren't just lazily announced, there's a boatload of psychology behind their launch. the fact that a load of enthusiasts who understand nothing about the actual threat (there are a couple who do) whinge about it but can happily repeat it shows it's done its job.

It's truly a wonder how the entire advertising industry has spent decades honing and perfecting the skill of subliminally getting a message into the public psyche without annoying them, and yet this is seemingly beyond the capability of the security services and their boats full of psychologists.
 

IceAgeComing

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The best one was at London Bridge. The two different voices would do it at slightly different speeds and would overlap so standing on platform 3 would be like listening to children shouting over each other.

I swear that they are always synced so that it always sounds like an echo as well!

There was one day like a week ago when things were a total mess and they cancelled a few trains down the Woolwich line all at once because of a broken rail near Woolwich Dockyard and in the ten minutes that I was in the National Rail station before giving up and heading for the Jubilee line to get to Woolwich via Canning Town they played the "its wet so its slippery" announcement at least five times; it was comical. The sort of thing that encourages people not to listen to announcements!
 

CaptainHaddock

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It's truly a wonder how the entire advertising industry has spent decades honing and perfecting the skill of subliminally getting a message into the public psyche without annoying them, and yet this is seemingly beyond the capability of the security services and their boats full of psychologists.

Well exactly! "Let's create a message that's so annoying and irrelevant that everyone who hears it will switch off and put on their headphones". I suspect the "psychologists" who came up with the "see it say it sort it" nonsense are not the brightest in their field.
 

Deety

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We really don't need reminding about the terror threat every half an hour.
We really don't need reminding about the terror threat every half an hour.
We really don't need reminding about the terror threat every half an hour.
We really don't need reminding about the terror threat every half an hour.
We really don't need reminding about the terror threat every half an hour.
We really don't need reminding about the terror threat every half an hour.
We really don't need reminding about the terror threat every half an hour.

Is it sinking in yet or is it just annoying?
 

jfollows

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We really don't need reminding about the terror threat every half an hour.
Every half an hour? I had it FIVE times on a 15 minute journey Wilmslow to Manchester last week. Four times automated announcement and then, just to rub it in, the train conductor in person just as we passed Ardwick.

(I've still no idea what the "number" is, either!)
 

RichT54

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I would argue that any claims of the use of powerful psychological techniques in this, or indeed any advertising campaign, are totally illusionary and are only raised to justify the enormous fees the advertising agencies charge. The only weapon they have is to endless repeat the same thing over and over again (whether it's security messages, or TV adverts) and, if people seem to be ignoring it, repeat it louder and more often, because it's the only thing they know how to do.
 

ooo

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Thanks to the repeated announcements I now know what the text number for the btp is. I doubt I would remember it otherwise
 

mpthomson

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It's truly a wonder how the entire advertising industry has spent decades honing and perfecting the skill of subliminally getting a message into the public psyche without annoying them, and yet this is seemingly beyond the capability of the security services and their boats full of psychologists.



There are awards every year for 'Most Irritating Advert' etc, they work in exactly the same way. Cillit Bang, Go Compare, Money Supermarket ads etc....
There are forums devoted to discussing adverts and their irritation factor.. They're really no different.
 

mpthomson

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I would argue that any claims of the use of powerful psychological techniques in this, or indeed any advertising campaign, are totally illusionary and are only raised to justify the enormous fees the advertising agencies charge. The only weapon they have is to endless repeat the same thing over and over again (whether it's security messages, or TV adverts) and, if people seem to be ignoring it, repeat it louder and more often, because it's the only thing they know how to do.

Then you'd be completely wrong, it's a well understood and researched part of behavioural science.
 

mpthomson

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Well exactly! "Let's create a message that's so annoying and irrelevant that everyone who hears it will switch off and put on their headphones". I suspect the "psychologists" who came up with the "see it say it sort it" nonsense are not the brightest in their field.

Really, so everyone on every train you've been since the launch on has their headphones on, have they? Didn't think so....

Seeing that so many posters on here can quote it easily and others have said that they now remember the BTP text number as a result I'd suggest that they're fairly bright. And it's not an irrelevant message....
 

mpthomson

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Are there any stats about the campaign actually averting any incidents?

Yes, but not for public consumption. As a rule you don't want an 'enemy' to know how their plan was discovered, as that makes your counter-measure less useful.
 

DarloRich

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Thanks to the repeated announcements I now know what the text number for the btp is. I doubt I would remember it otherwise

and there is stage one of the campaign successful. Now for stage two: is that number used more often than previously to report problems?
 

DarloRich

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Are there any stats about the campaign actually averting any incidents?

yes - but i don't think they are in the public domain. I have certainly had briefings on such things. I suspect investigations are on going. This kind of campaign is designed to ID issues early and help nip activities in the bud by encouraging people to report things they are unhappy with.
 

mde

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and there is stage one of the campaign successful. Now for stage two: is that number used more often than previously to report problems?
That particular element of information should be readily obtainable under the Freedom of Information Act - it’s not necessarily any more problematic than revealing the number of contacts received by their control centre.
 

DarloRich

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That particular element of information should be readily obtainable under the Freedom of Information Act - it’s not necessarily any more problematic than revealing the number of contacts received by their control centre.

I doubt you will need and FOI request. BTP will be shouting out the numbers if they go up.
 

growse

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There are forums devoted to discussing adverts and their irritation factor.. They're really no different.

Yes, they're discussing how *bad* they are. In the same way, I'd judge the SSS as being a bad campaign.

Either the people who designed the SSS campaign actively wanted to irritate people, or they weren't capable of coming up with a campaign to get the message across without irritating people. Which is it?

Seeing that so many posters on here can quote it easily and others have said that they now remember the BTP text number as a result I'd suggest that they're fairly bright. And it's not an irrelevant message....

I agree it's a useful message to get across, but what we currently have is only a few levels above hired hands running around screaming the message in people's faces. Sure, it works, but there's a better way of doing it that doesn't make travelling by train worse for everyone. I somehow know the NHS 111 number without barely remembering how I know it. *That's* an effective campaign.
 

DarloRich

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Either the people who designed the SSS campaign actively wanted to irritate people, or they weren't capable of coming up with a campaign to get the message across without irritating people. Which is it?

I agree it's a useful message to get across, but what we currently have is only a few levels above hired hands running around screaming the message in people's faces. Sure, it works, but there's a better way of doing it. I somehow know the NHS 111 number without barely remembering how I know it. *That's* an effective campaign.

anyone would think the campaign in question was designed by morons rather than professionals. It seems their big crime was to neglect the experts here in their stakeholder engagement. They could have saved the money by not bothering.
 

growse

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anyone would think the campaign in question was designed by morons rather than professionals. It seems their big crime was to neglect the experts here in their stakeholder engagement. They could have saved the money by not bothering.

So you're saying the professionally-devised strategy was to irritate people?
 

CaptainHaddock

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Yes, but not for public consumption. As a rule you don't want an 'enemy' to know how their plan was discovered, as that makes your counter-measure less useful.

Ah so in other words you're making up an imaginary threat and can offer no proof it exists?

You really haven't got a clue, have you?
 

hooverboy

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Yes, they're discussing how *bad* they are. In the same way, I'd judge the SSS as being a bad campaign.

Either the people who designed the SSS campaign actively wanted to irritate people, or they weren't capable of coming up with a campaign to get the message across without irritating people. Which is it?



I agree it's a useful message to get across, but what we currently have is only a few levels above hired hands running around screaming the message in people's faces. Sure, it works, but there's a better way of doing it that doesn't make travelling by train worse for everyone. I somehow know the NHS 111 number without barely remembering how I know it. *That's* an effective campaign.
well you could replace the SSS for the military version:
****,shave and shampoo!

that's easy to remember!
 

al78

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It's truly a wonder how the entire advertising industry has spent decades honing and perfecting the skill of subliminally getting a message into the public psyche without annoying them ...

You don't listen to Heart radio, do you?
 

DarloRich

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Ah so in other words you're making up an imaginary threat and can offer no proof it exists?

You really haven't got a clue, have you?

Or people don't want the sack for breaching confidentiality rules to satisfy some interweb blowhard? It would be pointless to show you any such information anyway as you have a closed mind to anything other than your own view.

The point of this campaign is to have people to notice and report what is called hostile reconnaissance without actually knowing what that is AND to encourage people that reporting things that might seem silly will not lead to you being criticsed for doing so.

Clearly you are an expert so do no need any such information but a quick google may help other posters with their understanding. The centre for the Protection of National Infrastructure is a good starting point.

That such activities take place is not in doubt to anyone with knowledge. The point is to encourage people to report and thus break up any conspiracy at an early stage. I know of several such actions on the railway. I wont give you the details as they remain confidential at this stage but they do exist. One was potentially very serious and was stopped by the use of this line. The fact it was disrupted BEFORE anything awful could happen is a success.

You are free to continue to express your position but it is not based on fact.
 
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anamyd

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Who else here actually feels reassured when the guard repeats station arrival etc. announcements that the PIS has already announced...?
 
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