Are too loud and too many PRM alarms and announcements making travellers uptight.....

[TUC]

Really, so everyone on every train you've been since the launch on has their headphones on, have they? Didn't think so....

Seeing that so many posters on here can quote it easily and others have said that they now remember the BTP text number as a result I'd suggest that they're fairly bright. And it's not an irrelevant message....

I've just tried to remember the number, having heard the announcement so many times, and I can't, probably because like most people I just think 'not again. Stop being a parrot' and switch off.

 

[TUC]

Strange isn't it that people get through the rest of their lives, walking through town shopping, going to work etc. and don't need anything other thsn the usual emergency numbers, and without being reminded of them constantly, and yet the rail industry thinks they're different.

 

[Bikeman78]

Strange isn't it that people get through the rest of their lives, walking through town shopping, going to work etc. and don't need anything other thsn the usual emergency numbers, and without being reminded of them constantly, and yet the rail industry thinks they're different.

Along the M4 around Newport there are several large electronic signs. I believe they are supposed to give information about disruption but most of the time they give out useless information like "Don't drink and drive" or "Poor driving conditions!"

 

[anamyd]

I've just tried to remember the number, having heard the announcement so many times, and I can't, probably because like most people I just think 'not again. Stop being a parrot' and switch off.

If you actually need to contact BTP, you'll just look the number up right...?

 

[Peter C]

It'd do to remove all the waffle. Announcements about forgetting your bags are not necessary. The Goverment needs to pack in with the requirements for them.

All a regional train needs is what it gets in Switzerland, such as (made-up example):-

(once, while doors are open at intermediate stations, and maybe twice at termini)

"[bong] London Midland service to London Euston calling at [...]"

(once on departing a station)

"[bong] Next station Bletchley"

(on door release)

"[bong] Bletchley"

(on departure from stop before terminus)

"[bong] Next station London Euston where this train terminates. All passengers please leave the train at this station."

(on arrival at terminus)

"[bong] London Euston, terminus. All passengers please leave the train."

That would be entirely sufficient. The pleasantries are not needed.

I notice that London Buses did actually trim their announcements a bit - the original iBus trial on the 168 used to do "Route 168 to Hampstead Heath" and the "Route" was dropped as a completely spurious ear-worm.

The "bong" should be a nice relaxing sound, the Mk3 guitar strum would also work. Its purpose is to tune you into the announcement so you don't need "ladies and gentlemen" or any similar waffle[1].

As for the door opening alerts, they are a horrible noise. Some kind of pleasant "ding dong" type sound would be fine. I also think a different sound is needed for "doors closing on a timer" and "doors closing as we are departing".

[1] Has anyone noticed that the Class 700 for manual announcements has the Dutch 3-tone "bong" as found on NS and at Schiphol Airport? Wonder why it ended up with that?

I think that the "pleasantries" are a hangover from the days of steam and when people were a lot more formal; however, the next station announcements have pretty much completely changed from their roots. Back in the early days of the railways, the station master at each station would call out the name of the station for the passengers who were alighting; however, they often "mispronounced" the names, changing "Durham" into "doom" and the like with their accents!!
Apologies for the very late input.

 

[Tracked]

I was at Meadowhell yesterday afternoon, wasn't sure how late the TPE service would be so I got the Adwick service and checked the board on arriving at Meadowhell ...

The Adwick train was slightly delayed as the conductor had to get the ramp out, but after it left there's a large gap between the station and the next signal, so we got not only the "This train is delayed" message, but a list of 4/5 stations and alternative services available, all rushed off by the automated voice and slightly too quick for people to take in. All a bit over the top and also not actually reflecting what was happening at the station.

Mind you, not as bad when the next couple of trains are even slightly late at Chesterfield and there's been a spot of rain. Apologies for each train, interspersed with messages about late night/early morning services during the week, work that's happening at the weekend, Say it see it sorted, and Take Care on Slippy platforms. I was on the station for 6 minutes this afternoon and had the above 4 messages, plus apologies for the next 3 trains which were 2, 3 and 6 minutes late ...

 

[anamyd]

I think that the "pleasantries" are a hangover from the days of steam and when people were a lot more formal; however, the next station announcements have pretty much completely changed from their roots. Back in the early days of the railways, the station master at each station would call out the name of the station for the passengers who were alighting; however, they often "mispronounced" the names, changing "Durham" into "doom" and the like with their accents!!
Apologies for the very late input.

I liked the "to-the-point" / "don't care" Northern unrefurbished 156 guard's announcements a few months back (Manchester Piccadilly-Preston) - "next stop Oxford Road"... "next stop Blackburn, sorry Bolton!" (a passenger said to that one "whatever it's called" and my friend said when I told him "Blackburn and Bolton may as well be the same place" "Buckshaw... next stop Buckshaw Parkway"... "Leyland"

 

[CaptainHaddock]

I liked the "to-the-point" / "don't care" Northern unrefurbished 156 guard's announcements a few months back (Manchester Piccadilly-Preston) - "next stop Oxford Road"... "next stop Blackburn, sorry Bolton!" (a passenger said to that one "whatever it's called" and my friend said when I told him "Blackburn and Bolton may as well be the same place" "Buckshaw... next stop Buckshaw Parkway"... "Leyland"

Yes, I much prefer that to the rather annoying "We are now approaching Blackburn" (or wherever). My inner pedant wants to yell "Yes, I know, we've been approaching Blackburn ever since the train set off half an hour ago so why announce it now?!!!!"

 

[al78]

Along the M4 around Newport there are several large electronic signs. I believe they are supposed to give information about disruption but most of the time they give out useless information like "Don't drink and drive" or "Poor driving conditions!"

I wouldn't call "poor driving conditions" useless information. It might encourage some people to moderate their driving in anticipation of deteriorating conditions ahead. "Don't drink and drive" is just ramming home the message that it is an unacceptable thing to do. Educating people is like training dogs sometimes, things have to be repeated over and over and over and over again until they sink in. The only difference is that dogs often learn faster*. There is some analogy with teaching people to play bridge, it is no good teaching a concept once because it will be forgotten in a week, it needs to be taught repeatedly until it becomes ingrained in their mind.

*Maybe electric shock therapy might encourage people to learn faster.

 

[al78]

Strange isn't it that people get through the rest of their lives, walking through town shopping, going to work etc. and don't need anything other thsn the usual emergency numbers, and without being reminded of them constantly, and yet the rail industry thinks they're different.

Perhaps the rail network is more of a terrorist target than an average shopping centre or place of work.

 

[anamyd]

Yes, I much prefer that to the rather annoying "We are now approaching Blackburn" (or wherever). My inner pedant wants to yell "Yes, I know, we've been approaching Blackburn ever since the train set off half an hour ago so why announce it now?!!!!"

Indeed. Just to be clear he called Bolton Blackburn but corrected himself straight away

 

[trainophile]

Interesting one today, on a southbound Virgin Pendolino. The TM, with more than a hint of apology for having to mention it, spent some minutes reminding people that even when not in a designated Quiet coach, we should show respect for other people and not play loud music or watch films without using headphones. He repeated the point several times, so I suspect someone had made a complaint about a fellow passenger. It wasn't in my coach so I don't know the details, but I'm very glad that the problem was tackled, and I hope the perpetrator felt suitably embarrassed.

 

[Matt_pool]

I liked the "to-the-point" / "don't care" Northern unrefurbished 156 guard's announcements a few months back (Manchester Piccadilly-Preston) - "next stop Oxford Road"... "next stop Blackburn, sorry Bolton!" (a passenger said to that one "whatever it's called" and my friend said when I told him "Blackburn and Bolton may as well be the same place" "Buckshaw... next stop Buckshaw Parkway"... "Leyland"

That reminds me of a Northern train I was getting to Liverpool Lime Street a couple of months ago. The guard announced "Next stop Edge Hill", followed about 20 seconds later by "Sorry, the driver's just informed me we don't stop at Edge Hill, next stop Liverpool Lime Street..."!

 

[anamyd]

That reminds me of a Northern train I was getting to Liverpool Lime Street a couple of months ago. The guard announced "Next stop Edge Hill", followed about 20 seconds later by "Sorry, the driver's just informed me we don't stop at Edge Hill, next stop Liverpool Lime Street..."!

Probably the longest announcement ever made on their manual PAs, and only out of necessity!

 

[anamyd]

Interesting one today, on a southbound Virgin Pendolino. The TM, with more than a hint of apology for having to mention it, spent some minutes reminding people that even when not in a designated Quiet coach, we should show respect for other people and not play loud music or watch films without using headphones. He repeated the point several times, so I suspect someone had made a complaint about a fellow passenger. It wasn't in my coach so I don't know the details, but I'm very glad that the problem was tackled, and I hope the perpetrator felt suitably embarrassed.

It's always nice and reassuring when person A actually cares about how person B's behaviour affects people C/D/E etc, "nowadays"

 

[Brock_and_Roll]

What I find rather worrying is aside from the (unnecessary) frequency and banality of the announcements on SWT is the actual noise level. Even with my headphones in and an audio book on full volume, I am unable to make out any of the words sometimes - particularly a couple of "enthusiastic" guards on the SW mainline. According to my iphone meter (not sure how reliable) the announcement regularly top 100 decibels.

And there is of course the irony of frequent and loud, "COACH X IS A QUIET ZONE PLEASE KEEP NOISE TO A MINIMUM" etc etc etc"

 

[mallard]

It's always nice and reassuring when person A actually cares about how person B's behaviour affects people C/D/E etc, "nowadays"

Assuming "C/D/E etc" have actually complained or otherwise made it obvious that they are in fact bothered by "B"'s behaviour. There are far too many people "nowadays" who will complain "on behalf of" others who aren't in the slightest bit concerned. As someone who's previously been in the completely unconcerned "C/D/E etc" position when someone complains "on my behalf" (It's extremely awkward), that sort of puritanical busybody attitude can go "do the proverbial".

 

[al78]

It's always nice and reassuring when person A actually cares about how person B's behaviour affects people C/D/E etc, "nowadays"

Yes it is a nice change to see a bit of empathy these days.

 

[anamyd]

What I find rather worrying is aside from the (unnecessary) frequency and banality of the announcements on SWT is the actual noise level. Even with my headphones in and an audio book on full volume, I am unable to make out any of the words sometimes - particularly a couple of "enthusiastic" guards on the SW mainline. According to my iphone meter (not sure how reliable) the announcement regularly top 100 decibels.

And there is of course the irony of frequent and loud, "COACH X IS A QUIET ZONE PLEASE KEEP NOISE TO A MINIMUM" etc etc etc"

Not that accurate without a proper calibrated external microphone but 100dB of speech is really loud compared to 100dB at bass (the higher the frequency as in cycles per second, the more sensitive our ears are to the sound and the lower the dB level for the same perceived volume) - Ironic indeed!

 

[anamyd]

Assuming "C/D/E etc" have actually complained or otherwise made it obvious that they are in fact bothered by "B"'s behaviour. There are far too many people "nowadays" who will complain "on behalf of" others who aren't in the slightest bit concerned. As someone who's previously been in the completely unconcerned "C/D/E etc" position when someone complains "on my behalf" (It's extremely awkward), that sort of puritanical busybody attitude can go "do the proverbial".

Fair point

 

[mpthomson]

Perhaps the rail network is more of a terrorist target than an average shopping centre or place of work.

It is, significantly so, both in terms of successful and none successful. I'm including the Underground in that, as there's no distinction to terrorists.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

It is, significantly so, both in terms of successful and none successful. I'm including the Underground in that, as there's no distinction to terrorists.

Repeatedly posting the same misinformation doesn't make it any more true. As lyndhurst25 pointed out earlier in this thread the last terrorist attack on the UK rail network was when the IRA bombed London Bridge in 1992. I'd say 27 years without a terrorist attack on the UK rail network proves the threat is somewhere between negligible and non-existent.

 

[trainophile]

Repeatedly posting the same misinformation doesn't make it any more true. As lyndhurst25 pointed out earlier in this thread the last terrorist attack on the UK rail network was when the IRA bombed London Bridge in 1992. I'd say 27 years without a terrorist attack on the UK rail network proves the threat is somewhere between negligible and non-existent.

Doesn't the 7/7/2005 Underground bombings count then?

 

[anamyd]

Doesn't the 7/7/2005 Underground bombings count then?

Maybe he meant (British) National Rail, but shouldn't be forgotten for sure.

 

[hooverboy]

Repeatedly posting the same misinformation doesn't make it any more true. As lyndhurst25 pointed out earlier in this thread the last terrorist attack on the UK rail network was when the IRA bombed London Bridge in 1992. I'd say 27 years without a terrorist attack on the UK rail network proves the threat is somewhere between negligible and non-existent.

on the contrary.
the threat exists alright, but the problem is over-complacency within political+security spheres...the belief that THEY can sort it out quicker than joe public...part of it is down to political dogma,part of it is down to the paranoia of the politico's to "be in control".
when SHTF,...and seconds count..the police are only minutes away.....that's the problem.
I would rather trust in a bit of training and a concealed carry glock 9mm.

I would suggest that this dogma will only change when events "close to home" affecting the nearest and dearest of high society leave them screaming for protection..which could have been provided had there been people armed and trained in the vacinity at the time of abductions etc etc.

..the politicians have stipulated that immediate action by joe public cannot be sanctioned,and as such the public do not posess the tools to deal with such a threat.(hence the ..run away and tell teacher mantra of SSS)

the police are basically castrated to deal with such a threat under the shadow of jean chales de menesez.

if faced with multiple similtaneous threats this approach will ultimately be shown to be an abject failure.
if and when such an event happens..who do you plan to turn to?..because you shouldn't really be reliant on turning to anybody.

for the iraqi's/syrians etc , this is basically an extrended guerilla war.
a lot of them see us as invaders.

should an invasion happen in this country(or home)..what are your tactics going to be???
would you not see it as your duty to resist and repel an assailant?

 

[thejuggler]

Warmest Feb for a long time and on three days last week we were advised to be careful in the current icy conditions as platforms may be slippy.

The station staff must pull their hair out having to listen to it all day.

 

[BigB]

Along the M4 around Newport there are several large electronic signs. I believe they are supposed to give information about disruption but most of the time they give out useless information like "Don't drink and drive" or "Poor driving conditions!"

The reason that these signs often have a generic message is tha it allows the road department to know they are working, so that when an urgent message is required to be shown, they have confidence the screen works.
In cases where a blank screen shows, this will be reported and investigated.

It's a sensible approach and I too thought it pointless until I actually found out the reasoning behind it, like so many things in life.

 

[Bikeman78]

The reason that these signs often have a generic message is tha it allows the road department to know they are working, so that when an urgent message is required to be shown, they have confidence the screen works.
In cases where a blank screen shows, this will be reported and investigated.

It's a sensible approach and I too thought it pointless until I actually found out the reasoning behind it, like so many things in life.

Fair enough, though it could display something like "no disruption reported" or "no delays reported." Further east along the M4, a lot of them state the times to various future junctions which is actually useful.

 

[PHILIPE]

I was waiting at Cardiff Central once in the aftermath of some heavy disruption affecting the Valley lines and due to the fact trains hadn't been cancelled off in the system for some reason stood there listening to "The xx from A to B has been delayed. Please listen to further announcements. The xx from D to C has been.............. " You can guess the rest. Just sounded like one continuous announcement going on and on.

 

[JamesT]

Doesn't the 7/7/2005 Underground bombings count then?

Or rather more recently, the 2017 Parsons Green attack?