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Are your buses good value?

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ATW Alex 101

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£3.60 sounds like when Stagecoach first reduced the ticket prices when they bought Chester and Wirral. Now, fares in Eport are like £4.40 return for a 10 minute journey.



In my experience, my local fares are quite cheap because it's a QBP corridor but all other local routes are very highly priced and the quality isn't anything special. I think that overall, bus fares aren't as good value for money as they once were but I can see why they are so expensive (concessionary reimbursement).

This is why I drive! Much easier and cheaper. It’s been notorious in Ellesmere Port for a while now Re: Bus fares. A lot of people, however do rely on the bus more than I do to get into town, Cheshire Oaks and Chester etc.

Hope you are well Mark, I remember meeting you in Chester at a forum meal a few years back now.
 
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gazmark

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Sheffield fares used to be, but until Travel South Yorkshire and the abject, useless Sheffield City Council created "Buses For Sheffield". This lead to BSOG being creamed off for supposdly bus improvement projects (check out the bus rapid transit project between Sheffield > Medowhall > Tinsley > Rotherham , designed for upto 12 buses an hour, soon to be used by 4 per hour, this was before the covid virus hit the uk).

After "Buses For Sheffield" was created, my local routes (36, 38 now the 18) doesn't run in the evening or Sundays and also service cuts across the city, which when Worst, TM, SCT & Stagecoach worked together it was much better, a co-ordinated network not like the mess created now and the fares where cheaper :D.

Now it's not worth the effort, plus with the Sheffield City Centre vehicle tax (50p per Bus, Coach, delivery van, Lorry and Taxi about to be introduced) it's better to walk, get a taxi (if in a group), or use the car if you have one

Oh and by the start of April the 36 has been withdrawn completely.........
 
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Qwerty133

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This is why I drive! Much easier and cheaper. It’s been notorious in Ellesmere Port for a while now Re: Bus fares. A lot of people, however do rely on the bus more than I do to get into town, Cheshire Oaks and Chester etc.

Hope you are well Mark, I remember meeting you in Chester at a forum meal a few years back now.
To be fair if you can afford to shop at Cheshire Oaks you can afford the bus fare to get there.
 

markymark2000

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This is why I drive! Much easier and cheaper. It’s been notorious in Ellesmere Port for a while now Re: Bus fares. A lot of people, however do rely on the bus more than I do to get into town, Cheshire Oaks and Chester etc.

Hope you are well Mark, I remember meeting you in Chester at a forum meal a few years back now.
Ellesmere Port has a lot of potential for bus usage but it is being ruined by some of the fares. It costs the same to get to Liverpool as it costs to get into town and no one wants that so then they get stuck into the cycle of increasing fares for the concessionary reimbursement but then losing paying passengers and that is how the Port has got so bad. Plus the fact Stagecoach have messed up the network.

I am well, thanks for asking.

To be fair if you can afford to shop at Cheshire Oaks you can afford the bus fare to get there.
Not all of Cheshire Oaks is overly expensive. It's worth remembering that some people do just go there for a journey out and may only go to one or two shops.
 

ATW Alex 101

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To be fair if you can afford to shop at Cheshire Oaks you can afford the bus fare to get there.

Not strictly true, there are a lot of shops there that aren’t that expensive. Especially on the Coliseum side.

Ellesmere Port has a lot of potential for bus usage but it is being ruined by some of the fares. It costs the same to get to Liverpool as it costs to get into town and no one wants that so then they get stuck into the cycle of increasing fares for the concessionary reimbursement but then losing paying passengers and that is how the Port has got so bad. Plus the fact Stagecoach have messed up the network.

I am well, thanks for asking.


Not all of Cheshire Oaks is overly expensive. It's worth remembering that some people do just go there for a journey out and may only go to one or two shops.

I agree, Mark. We have suffered a bit in the last few years in terms of buses. Having said that, like I did say, I don’t use them much so I’m only going from what I observe through Facebook groups and other people testimony.

The route I mentioned in my original post, doesn’t even serve my nearest bus stop now, the Number 7. It was run by the ill-fated GHA. I’m not sure who runs it now, I think it’s ACL.
 

Bletchleyite

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Ellesmere Port has a lot of potential for bus usage but it is being ruined by some of the fares. It costs the same to get to Liverpool as it costs to get into town and no one wants that so then they get stuck into the cycle of increasing fares for the concessionary reimbursement but then losing paying passengers and that is how the Port has got so bad.

It's also just not a very nice place to spend time, unlike the centre of Liverpool which has had a fortune spent on it and is now rather nice compared with its nadir in the late 90s/early 2000s. Or you can drive or get the bus (or train via Hooton) to Chester if you want, and that's lovely barring the scabby, urine-smelling underpass between the station and the centre which direly needs filling in and has for years.

You'll probably see this as having a downer on EP, but with so many nicer places easy to get there I just can't see why you'd want to spend time there. Central Bletchley is similarly manky - I almost never go there. There's just no point.
 

Deerfold

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My local travel is good value except for single fares and bus and train day products if you want to travel in the peak.

Transdev do a day ticket valid from my house to town and a similar distance in each direction that is £3.30 to buy on the bus or £2.64 if you buy 5 at once on your phone. A single is £2.40.

Buses throughout West Yorkshire for a day is £6 with no time restrictions.

As soon as you add trains into the equation there's no day product that includes peaks and the tickets are fairly difficult to buy (not available on bus or train or smartcard or phone). They're buyable from staffed stations and scratch off tickets from 5 locations in the county (my local one only has ones with dates in 2020).

Transdev do good value tickets further out, but it gets pricey if you want to use any other company.
 

[.n]

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No its very poor value £7 return** from one town to the next for a 40 minute journey is just on the edge of okay, but the single is £5.50. Couple that with the incredibly poor timetable, means its actually quite difficult to plan a trip to town that suits.

Of course then the NON interavailability of tickets on operators means that some logical journeys (that used to be all one operator) now cost far more than they used and of course no longer interconnect properly.

When I started commuting, the price was £3 return, so has gone up by over 130% and the number of timetabled journeys reduced by 60%, and for a loss of operating hours of 7 hours (I'm sure I have the phrase correct, but essentially the service now only runs between 7am and 6pm, rather than 6am-midnight).

By contrast the rail part of my commute has gone up by far less, the frequency of trains has largely stayed the same (I think we're missing one late night service)
 

43055

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In Nottingham, I find CT4N prices a bit steep but you get an electric bus.
Trent Barton prices are quite steep and continue to rise but they are good in terms of comfort etc
I find trentbarton ok for my normal commute if in need to get the bus £3.70 on Mango for 35 mins in to Derby which is similar to the train from Tutbury to Derby on a return trip. The shorter the trip I find the more steep the value can be. Like £2 on the skylink for London Road to Derby Bus Station. Arriva is a little better at £1.60.
 

ATW Alex 101

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It's also just not a very nice place to spend time, unlike the centre of Liverpool which has had a fortune spent on it and is now rather nice compared with its nadir in the late 90s/early 2000s. Or you can drive or get the bus (or train via Hooton) to Chester if you want, and that's lovely barring the scabby, urine-smelling underpass between the station and the centre which direly needs filling in and has for years.

You'll probably see this as having a downer on EP, but with so many nicer places easy to get there I just can't see why you'd want to spend time there. Central Bletchley is similarly manky - I almost never go there. There's just no point.

Well said. Despite living in the town from a young age and growing up here, I cannot wait to leave. The place is dire and quite frankly has turned into an utter s**thole. There is nothing in the town centre, most decent places have closed down in the last 10 years and thus the high street is dead. You have a nice choice of kebab shops, charity shops and Polish food shops though. :lol:And the culture here is somewhat toxic. The amount of lowlifes there are here and general scumbags roaming around is unreal. It’s not that long ago we had a family of them evicted from one of our rental properties. They failed to see why not paying rent was a bad thing. Nor the fact that they’ve destroyed the house to the point I’ve stripped it back to bricks and practically rebuilt the whole house . I say all this though, and unfortunately this is not at all unique to The Port.

It’s even got to the point that I avoid the town centre where I can. The only reason I ever go to Ellesmere Port town centre is to deposit money at the bank, or for a very specific shop. If I need anything else, I travel to an out-of-town alternative.

Having said that, Chester isn’t really that special either, granted, it’s better than Ellesmere Port, but it’s not somewhere I’d ever live or spend a lot of time. To others it might seem unfair, but I hold this view for most of the North-West.
 

Pat1105

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Well said. Despite living in the town from a young age and growing up here, I cannot wait to leave. The place is dire and quite frankly has turned into an utter s**thole. There is nothing in the town centre, most decent places have closed down in the last 10 years and thus the high street is dead. You have a nice choice of kebab shops, charity shops and Polish food shops though. :lol:And the culture here is somewhat toxic. The amount of lowlifes there are here and general scumbags roaming around is unreal. It’s not that long ago we had a family of them evicted from one of our rental properties. They failed to see why not paying rent was a bad thing. Nor the fact that they’ve destroyed the house to the point I’ve stripped it back to bricks and practically rebuilt the whole house . I say all this though, and unfortunately this is not at all unique to The Port.

It’s even got to the point that I avoid the town centre where I can. The only reason I ever go to Ellesmere Port town centre is to deposit money at the bank, or for a very specific shop. If I need anything else, I travel to an out-of-town alternative.

Having said that, Chester isn’t really that special either, granted, it’s better than Ellesmere Port, but it’s not somewhere I’d ever live or spend a lot of time. To others it might seem unfair, but I hold this view for most of the North-West.
Unfortunately, towns across the country are declining. It’s not much different here in the Midlands, where town centres are filled with charity shops, takeaways and market stalls selling tat. What makes it worse is out of town shopping centres (Merry Hill in my case) that have everything you could possibly want under one roof. Free parking and massive car parks doesn’t help either as it encourages more car usage and gridlocks the surrounding roads (Brierley Hill and Quarry Bank are a nightmare to get through on a Saturday) that consequently delays the buses, causing reliability issues.
 

ATW Alex 101

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Unfortunately, towns across the country are declining. It’s not much different here in the Midlands, where town centres are filled with charity shops, takeaways and market stalls selling tat. What makes it worse is out of town shopping centres (Merry Hill in my case) that have everything you could possibly want under one roof. Free parking and massive car parks doesn’t help either as it encourages more car usage and gridlocks the surrounding roads (Brierley Hill and Quarry Bank are a nightmare to get through on a Saturday) that consequently delays the buses, causing reliability issues.

Exactly. Same reasoning behind restaurants such as McDonald’s closing most of their town-centre McDonalds and opting for out of town ones with drive-thru options. In terms of shops, the boom in online sales has pretty much doomed the high-Street and this is quite common knowledge by now. And it reflects on everything else, such as in this case, bus services.
 

bussnapperwm

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Unfortunately, towns across the country are declining. It’s not much different here in the Midlands, where town centres are filled with charity shops, takeaways and market stalls selling tat. What makes it worse is out of town shopping centres (Merry Hill in my case) that have everything you could possibly want under one roof. Free parking and massive car parks doesn’t help either as it encourages more car usage and gridlocks the surrounding roads (Brierley Hill and Quarry Bank are a nightmare to get through on a Saturday) that consequently delays the buses, causing reliability issues.

Christmas is the worst for Merry Hell. I remember one bus losing a hour and half one Saturday trying to get through Merry Hill and the inspectors (pre AVL) refusing to turn him back to Dudley, even though the next one was right behind him!
 

Pat1105

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Exactly. Same reasoning behind restaurants such as McDonald’s closing most of their town-centre McDonalds and opting for out of town ones with drive-thru options. In terms of shops, the boom in online sales has pretty much doomed the high-Street and this is quite common knowledge by now. And it reflects on everything else, such as in this case, bus services.
The problem is, as more shops in town start closing, less people want to go to town, so buses get less passengers and fares increase.
Christmas is the worst for Merry Hell. I remember one bus losing a hour and half one Saturday trying to get through Merry Hill and the inspectors (pre AVL) refusing to turn him back to Dudley, even though the next one was right behind him!
Christmas is an awful time to drive round Merry Hill. 8’s are bad for losing time at Merry Hill as they have to go past the car parks, that have queues of traffic waiting to get in/out. When the 8 was the X96, the ‘X’ part never really happened at Christmas time!
 

JurassicMan

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I think most areas offer decent Weekly,Monthly and Annual tickets, the issues especially in rural areas always seem to be the single fare i'd guess a lot companies concessionary revenue being based on this is a large factor in single fares being set at such levels.
 

700007

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Fantastic value for money. £1.90 for a single around the city centre and £5 for a day ticket across the whole city and valid on multiple operators. Most buses are every 5-10 minutes (even at night on some routes), the buses are punctual, comfortable and clean and the staff are some of the loveliest I have seen on my travels.
 

markymark2000

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Well said. Despite living in the town from a young age and growing up here, I cannot wait to leave. The place is dire and quite frankly has turned into an utter s**thole. There is nothing in the town centre, most decent places have closed down in the last 10 years and thus the high street is dead. You have a nice choice of kebab shops, charity shops and Polish food shops though. :lol:And the culture here is somewhat toxic. The amount of lowlifes there are here and general scumbags roaming around is unreal. It’s not that long ago we had a family of them evicted from one of our rental properties. They failed to see why not paying rent was a bad thing. Nor the fact that they’ve destroyed the house to the point I’ve stripped it back to bricks and practically rebuilt the whole house . I say all this though, and unfortunately this is not at all unique to The Port.

It’s even got to the point that I avoid the town centre where I can. The only reason I ever go to Ellesmere Port town centre is to deposit money at the bank, or for a very specific shop. If I need anything else, I travel to an out-of-town alternative.

Having said that, Chester isn’t really that special either, granted, it’s better than Ellesmere Port, but it’s not somewhere I’d ever live or spend a lot of time. To others it might seem unfair, but I hold this view for most of the North-West.
It's not great for younger people. Older people tend to enjoy it though. Even if the Port is rubbish, the astronomical bus fares don't help things sometimes. The bus service as we have said has been slowly reduced and Stagecoach now they have no competition are running services down killing off demand left, right and centre.

As a Chester resident, I don't think we have anything special either. The only thing which makes people come here is 'well, at least it's not Ellesmere Port' (joke).

The problem is, as more shops in town start closing, less people want to go to town, so buses get less passengers and fares increase.

Christmas is an awful time to drive round Merry Hill. 8’s are bad for losing time at Merry Hill as they have to go past the car parks, that have queues of traffic waiting to get in/out. When the 8 was the X96, the ‘X’ part never really happened at Christmas time!
Combine that with the majority of bus operators not wanting to adapt to the changing shopping habits with at least 1/2 of out of town retail parks not served by buses and the majority of new housing estates having no buses. Until bus operators learn that they have to adapt to the customers new travel patterns rather than vice versa, bus usage will keep declining in many areas.
 

Statto

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The problem is, as more shops in town start closing, less people want to go to town, so buses get less passengers and fares increase.

Christmas is an awful time to drive round Merry Hill. 8’s are bad for losing time at Merry Hill as they have to go past the car parks, that have queues of traffic waiting to get in/out. When the 8 was the X96, the ‘X’ part never really happened at Christmas time!

November until Christmas is just as bad at Cheshire Oaks, it's not unheard of for buses to be delayed 30-40 minutes or longer because of the traffic going through there, does not help that a couple of the routes through Cheshire Oaks are main trunk routes Liverpool/Ellesmere Port-Chester
 

Deerfold

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Fantastic value for money. £1.90 for a single around the city centre and £5 for a day ticket across the whole city and valid on multiple operators. Most buses are every 5-10 minutes (even at night on some routes), the buses are punctual, comfortable and clean and the staff are some of the loveliest I have seen on my travels.

Do you want to share where this is?
 

leedslad82

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The problem is, as more shops in town start closing, less people want to go to town, so buses get less passengers and fares increase.

Christmas is an awful time to drive round Merry Hill. 8’s are bad for losing time at Merry Hill as they have to go past the car parks, that have queues of traffic waiting to get in/out. When the 8 was the X96, the ‘X’ part never really happened at Christmas time!
This is reason why at the white rose centre in leeds arriva rerouted services so they only serve the bus station and not the orbital road which has all the car parks on it
 

Pat1105

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It's not great for younger people. Older people tend to enjoy it though. Even if the Port is rubbish, the astronomical bus fares don't help things sometimes. The bus service as we have said has been slowly reduced and Stagecoach now they have no competition are running services down killing off demand left, right and centre.

As a Chester resident, I don't think we have anything special either. The only thing which makes people come here is 'well, at least it's not Ellesmere Port' (joke).


Combine that with the majority of bus operators not wanting to adapt to the changing shopping habits with at least 1/2 of out of town retail parks not served by buses and the majority of new housing estates having no buses. Until bus operators learn that they have to adapt to the customers new travel patterns rather than vice versa, bus usage will keep declining in many areas.
My town doesn’t have anything special for people to visit during the day. However, at weekends and during the festive period, we get many people coming in the evenings as we have many pubs up and down the high street. Most come by taxi, but we have a regular train service to ferry people in. I live on a new housing estate and we have no bus service. It is frustrating as the nearest stop is 1/2 mile down a hill (I am fortunate in that I am able to walk this with ease, but for some , particularly the elderly/disabled, it may be difficult). By law, under a section 106 agreement, new estates of a certain size are required to have certain facilities/services, one of which being a bus service. My estate is quite big, but I doubt anything will happen with regards to a bus service as it’s been here for 4 years.
This is reason why at the white rose centre in leeds arriva rerouted services so they only serve the bus station and not the orbital road which has all the car parks on it
Most bus services round Merry Hill avoid the main car parks. However, the 8 & 11A services have to go past them which can cause them to run late.
 

bussnapperwm

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Most bus services round Merry Hill avoid the main car parks. However, the 8 & 11A services have to go past them which can cause them to run late.

I felt sorry for the drivers when Merry Hill had their little circular Hopper service and the monorail replacement buses back in the 90s!

My town doesn’t have anything special for people to visit during the day. However, at weekends and during the festive period, we get many people coming in the evenings as we have many pubs up and down the high street.

Stourbridge per chance? Land of Charity Shops, Coffee shops and a great glass bus station. (If so my part of the borough is just as bad during the day, with the exception of the cop shop throwing everything out whenever they decide to do a 4a.m. Avon call (a raid) on the estates nearby (or the flats just down the road))
 

Dai Corner

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Newport Transport Day Ticket £4.00 (single operator ticket, valid within the City, no time restrictions)

Network Day Rider £8.50 (multi operator, valid to Hereford, Bridgend, Brecon and Barry)

Though by the time we're allowed out on the bus again the Welsh Government will be paying my fares!
 

carlberry

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By law, under a section 106 agreement, new estates of a certain size are required to have certain facilities/services, one of which being a bus service. My estate is quite big, but I doubt anything will happen with regards to a bus service as it’s been here for 4 years.
As I understand it a section 106 agreement only applies when a developer wants to get a contentious application through planning, or has it imposed during the planning process, theres not underlying requirement to provide a bus service. If it dosent get applied at that point then it's up to the operators/local council to decide if the estate needs a service. As most are planned to make it as difficult as possible for buses to serve them then the service they get isn't a surprise.
 

Llandudno

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As I understand it a section 106 agreement only applies when a developer wants to get a contentious application through planning, or has it imposed during the planning process, theres not underlying requirement to provide a bus service. If it dosent get applied at that point then it's up to the operators/local council to decide if the estate needs a service. As most are planned to make it as difficult as possible for buses to serve them then the service they get isn't a surprise.
Agreed, I think the moral of the tail is if you need to use the bus, move to an area where there is already an established and well used route, don’t expect operators to provide new services into new built housing estates, most of which have their own garages to attract car owners.
 

markymark2000

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[QUOTE="Pat1105, post: 4540351]
By law, under a section 106 agreement, new estates of a certain size are required to have certain facilities/services, one of which being a bus service. My estate is quite big, but I doubt anything will happen with regards to a bus service as it’s been here for 4 years.

[/QUOTE]
If a S106 agreement is put in place, normally one of the following happens:
1. A frequency enhancement to an existing route which is too far to walk for the majority of the estate.
2. The developers build the estate in such a way that the majority of people have moved in and by the time the bus comes into place, it's far too late
3. The developers build the estate in such a way that the bus route is very hard to access (for example lots of dead ends and no links to the main through road which the bus runs)
4. The site is built in such a way that the bus struggles to get through because it's too narrow, windy and generally built inconsiderately.
Or 5. They get a S106 through for the outline plan but when it comes to providing the bus service, they put in a reserved matters application to take out the requirement to provide a bus service or infrastructure enhancements.

1 or more of those happens meaning the S106 money is then spend on the bus but by which point, it's too late and the damage is done.
 

ChrisC

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I find trentbarton ok for my normal commute if in need to get the bus £3.70 on Mango for 35 mins in to Derby which is similar to the train from Tutbury to Derby on a return trip. The shorter the trip I find the more steep the value can be. Like £2 on the skylink for London Road to Derby Bus Station. Arriva is a little better at £1.60.

I also are find TrentBarton OK on their main direct services into Nottingham and Derby. It is out in the county areas on routes like the Amberline, Black Cat and 141 where I find them extremely expensive, especially for journeys of a few miles between neighbouring towns and villages. For example £3.50 single for the 3 mile journey on the Amberline from Watnall into Hucknall. Also their Zigzag and Mango day tickets are reasonable value but very expensive even if just one small part of your days travel is before 9am.
 

Dai Corner

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If a S106 agreement is put in place, normally one of the following happens:
1. A frequency enhancement to an existing route which is too far to walk for the majority of the estate.
2. The developers build the estate in such a way that the majority of people have moved in and by the time the bus comes into place, it's far too late
3. The developers build the estate in such a way that the bus route is very hard to access (for example lots of dead ends and no links to the main through road which the bus runs)
4. The site is built in such a way that the bus struggles to get through because it's too narrow, windy and generally built inconsiderately.
Or 5. They get a S106 through for the outline plan but when it comes to providing the bus service, they put in a reserved matters application to take out the requirement to provide a bus service or infrastructure enhancements.

1 or more of those happens meaning the S106 money is then spend on the bus but by which point, it's too late and the damage is done.

I wonder if there are any examples of services which have continued on a commercial or tendered basis after the S106 provision has expired? I'm pretty sure no S106 agreement has been made requiring a service to be provided in perpetuity!

We should probably start a new thread if this subject is of interest as it's getting off-topic for this one.
 

43055

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I also are find TrentBarton OK on their main direct services into Nottingham and Derby. It is out in the county areas on routes like the Amberline, Black Cat and 141 where I find them extremely expensive, especially for journeys of a few miles between neighbouring towns and villages. For example £3.50 single for the 3 mile journey on the Amberline from Watnall into Hucknall. Also their Zigzag and Mango day tickets are reasonable value but very expensive even if just one small part of your days travel is before 9am.
Yeah I agree with the it being expensive to the next village or a short distance. Looking at the ticketsto the next village the price for a child mango has gone up 90p in just the last 5 years more than doubling the price.
 
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