Areas of London that the new South London part of the Overground network serves

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by bailey65, 29 Nov 2012.

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  1. bailey65

    bailey65 Member

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    I wouldn't recommend getting off anywhere between canada water and clapham junction this part of london is a right dump and extremely rough too the route is useful for connections though.
     
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  3. Clip

    Clip On Moderation

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    Scared there's too many black people about are we? Its like plenty of deprived areas of London so Im not sure what your rather insensitive post is all about really?
     
  4. snail

    snail Established Member

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    I had better stick to Haggerston and Dalston then when in London. :o

    (Can't find a 'bigoted' smilie)
     
  5. Rational Plan

    Rational Plan Member

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    I've lived near New Cross and I'd feel okay on the main roads during the day in Peckham. But I'd be wary of wondering onto a council estate in case I got the one of the bad ones. I'd avoid walking around after dark, I've known to many people be mugged around there to be honest.
     
  6. Clip

    Clip On Moderation

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    Same goes for many many other council estates in London and around the country yet Ive never once seen anyone make a post about it so why now and why Peckham?
     
  7. bicbasher

    bicbasher Established Member

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    Some of the stations are a dump yes, but the areas on the line's supposed bad reputation are exaggerated. Denmark Hill for example is on the edge of an affluent area of Camberwell and Clapham (High St) has been gentrified.

    Incidentally, LOROL will deep clean Clapham High Street and Wandsworth Road and bring it up to TfL standards, Denmark Hill is getting lifts and a new footbridge and Queens Road Peckham will eventually get a new front entrance and lifts.

    Peckham Rye will also become less intimidating once the shops infront of the station are demolished to bring a new open square in front of the station.
     
  8. GodAtum

    GodAtum On Moderation

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    I know many people who work in Canada Water and actively avoid the overground because of the dangers, perceived they may be. for example I've just asked a colleague who lives in Clapham and she said she will not be taking the new line which would actually make her journey faster. She will continue to go back to east Croydon and change there for a train to London Bridge.
     
  9. cle

    cle Established Member

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    Your colleague commutes from Clapham Junction to London Bridge, via East Croydon??? Is she deranged?
     
  10. GodAtum

    GodAtum On Moderation

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    I forgot to add she does not end her journey at London Bridge but takes the tube to Canary Wharf. Even though this new line would make her journey quicker she thinks it would not make it safer.
     
  11. bicbasher

    bicbasher Established Member

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    Is the Outer SLL line which takes in such 'hotspots' as Streatham Hill, Crystal Palace and Honor Oak Park too dodgy for her to travel on from Clapham Jn?
     
  12. cle

    cle Established Member

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    Assuming she takes a fast train to EC and then up to LB? Madness. Is she paying for all those zones too? What a waste! Or if not, illegal!

    Not even NR to Waterloo and then Jubilee...?!

    Well it will be perfectly safe. You have full visibility through the train, lots of cameras, and crucially, it will be packed.

    Small minded prejudice, but then again she does appear to have a dinosaur brain based on her travel plans.
     
  13. bicbasher

    bicbasher Established Member

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    If anything, the new ELL/SLL service will probably be safer to travel on than the current Southern service with the regular appearance of the TravelSafe officers on those DOO services alongside the BTP who were on the ELL train I was on in the week.
     
  14. RJ

    RJ Established Member

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    What part of Denmark Hill is a dump then?
     
  15. Requeststop

    Requeststop Member

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    Just looked at Bailey's profile and it says "bailey65 has not made any friends yet" To be honest I'm not surprised!
     
  16. Latecomer

    Latecomer Member

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    It's not the first time though. I thought the sentiments expressed seemed familiar - and sure enough...

    The inference in the line "I won't mention certain other groups" is fairly clear is it not? The preemptive fear of being accused of something by people being 'pc' is typical of someone that views anti-racism as some kind of liberal whim. It's not. Bailey, if you are bold enough to express half-views like those (which are based on xenophobic misrepresentation of the broadly tolerant and inclusive multicultural communities around London) then there are a great many other places around the new orbital where you might not be too well appreciated.

    Give people a stereotype and sadly in the absence of alternative opportunities some people will live up to it. You're giving a certain group of people a stereotype and then you're upset when a tiny minority within that community feed your prejudices when they act in the way you expect them to!

    So that's two borderline racist posts by Bailey. Three strikes and you're out?
     
  17. class303

    class303 Member

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    I'd agree the "i wont mention certain groups" is a borderline racist comment, however the comments about certain "notorious" south london areas just seems a bit snobbish. If you have a problem with black people surely you wouldn't get off a train anywhere in the capital?
     
  18. bicbasher

    bicbasher Established Member

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    Visit the ELL thread on the East Dulwich forum where middle class users are snobbish about travelling on BUSES! This is despite a regular service on routes into Victoria from Peckham Rye, Queens Road Peckham and Denmark Hill as discussed in a previous thread on here not taking that much time.

    One forum user posted that travelling on a bus between Queens Road Peckham and Victoria would take forever! We're talking minutes here, not hours. While I sympathised it'd mean this person would no longer be able to travel direct by rail, they do have two bus routes from the station and can change at Peckham Rye or Denmark Hill for the majority of the day for Southeastern services.


    When there are towns in this country who'd love to have the regular subsidised transport system that London takes for granted, it makes me despair when commuters stick their nose at one form the integrated transport system London enjoys in comparison to the rest of the UK.
     
  19. RJ

    RJ Established Member

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    I frequent that forum and would actually sympathise with that sentiment. I don't think it's particularly snobbish. The 436 is a bit of a nightmare to travel on, average speed not more than jogging pace! The 36 is a bit better but that corridor is always extraordinarily busy, buses serving every single stop and the last time I travelled on the 436, somebody left a black bag full of fish in the luggage bay. The train takes 20 minutes whereas the bus can take more than twice as long.

    I like and advocate the use of buses in London where it's more practical than messing around with connecting trains, but the 436 is an endurance test, especially if you have to use it for more than a short hop journey on a regular basis.
     
    Last edited: 1 Dec 2012
  20. bicbasher

    bicbasher Established Member

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    If anything RJ, that part of Southwark, in particular the Peckham to Vauxhall & Victoria/Elephant & Waterloo corridor is reliant on the extensive local bus network due to the fact there isn't an extensive metro rail system in that area, the nearest being Oval/Vauxhall (36/436) and Elephant & Castle (So many bus connections I can't remember!) tubes, which leaves in the local area the commuter services provided by Southern and Southeastern which are more for the benefit of outer London commuters than those who live in the centre of the borough.

    Peckham would have been part of the Cross River Tram which Boris scrapped, which would have helped to relieve pressure from the local buses and rail.

    While the 36 and 436 are busy and I agree about the latter which starts from Lewisham, the bus system is still the preferred method of public transportation in some of the most deprived areas of Southwark where unemployment is high. There is a silent majority for whom rail is an expensive method of travelling, especially if you're on Jobseekers allowance or low paid and have to make with the bus taking longer to get around.

    With the addition of the ELL extension, it at least gives those poorer people in the Peckham area cheaper Oyster fares to reach job opportunities in other parts of the capital which are currently harder to access with the more expensive NR/TfL premium fares by going via London Terminals.
     
  21. bailey65

    bailey65 Member

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    That was a stupid assumption you mentioned race not me i was talking about yobbish youths in these areas of all races who can't be bothered to do anything but cause trouble and get into gangs etc this brings the areas down no matter what infrastructure is put in for everybody.
    The older generation of all races have more sense and get on with their lives but have to put up with the lawlessness of a large number of youths.
    This makes the areas dangerous for residents and visitors which is what i was referring to.
    I know and work with many people of all races so i suggest you get over yourself stop making libelous accusations,get off your high horse and get back to your copy of the guardian.
     
  22. Latecomer

    Latecomer Member

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    Your response to my post is not really believeable. In the post of yours which I quoted you had already mentioned "gangs" and a "general underclass" - are you really suggesting that the "certain groups" you were too afraid to mention were in fact "yobbish youths" (as different from gangs or an underclass). Is that group so distinct from the gangs and underclass that anyone being "pc" would take issue with you? Why would anyone take issue with you not feeling safe amongst yobbish youths? I wouldn't.

    It is clear that I am not the only one to have gleaned more from your inference and it is still unclear why you refrained from being more explicit originally. I therefore stand by my comments. Libel is hard to apply when it comes to someone posting under a username seeing as my posts do no damage to your real life reputation as far as I can see? You feel that my comments are libelous yet you are happy to make sweeping comments about whole communities? Nevertheless, you seem quite capable of defending yourself even if your response is somewhat unbelievable.

    Your other comments I just chuckled to myself about, because I knew that a Guardian reading allegation was likely to present itself at some point, and there it came in your first response (but thank you for assuming that I might actually read a broadsheet). The high horse comment was comedy coming from someone who uses the word "underclass". I'll refrain from making further posts on this matter (not through fear of libel action however, but simply because I find it annoying when threads go off track, like anyone else). I just thought that your original comments should not have gone unchallenged. I have heard the "I know and work with many people of all races" line so many times it doesn't really wash. You have been perceived by some as a snob, and by some (not just I) as borderline racist in your comments. That's all. You should ask yourself, not me, why that is.
     
  23. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Thanks to everyone who submitted a report about some of the comments in this thread. I have split this debate from the original London Overground completes the orbital thread.

    A small number of posts have been removed, but we decided to keep the original comments because we did not reasonably believe it to necessarily be offensive or be racially motivated and appears to be broadly (though not entirely) accurate.

    However a previous post by the member in question has been brought to light, which was not reported or acted upon at the time, and I agree that is a cause for concern. Appropriate action has been taken, however the member in question has chosen to leave the forum anyway by de-activating his account.

    Can I remind people that our rules state "if any content causes you concern, please alert us to it, by reporting ([​IMG]) it." The report button is at the bottom-left of each post. You can also report off-topic discussion using this method.

    If a post is causing concerns, we want to know about it, so we do appreciate the reports. Most reports result in some action being taken, although as I am sure will be appreciated, any discussions and/or sanctions with the original poster cannot be discussed on the forum and therefore it may not be obvious that action has taken place. All reports are read.
     
  24. jnjkerbin

    jnjkerbin Member

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    To be honest, I'd be more worried about going to Sittingbourne than Peckham. ;)

    Joe:)
     
  25. maniacmartin

    maniacmartin Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

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    At Surrey Quays this evening after Millwall's station had just cleared out, it was a bit hairy. I was passing through on a train to New Cross Gate and fans were waiting for a New Cross train. The fans were bashing the side of the train and chanting, and extra staff and BTP were called down to the platform at help dispatch (services are DOO).

    The train was dispatched, but some fans still were hitting the side of the train as we pulled out of the platform. This sort of behaviour can happen anywhere though, not just on the Overground
     
    Last edited: 1 Dec 2012
  26. GodAtum

    GodAtum On Moderation

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    Today was a great example of me being train snobbish! There were no fast trains to London Bridge for some reason so I took a train to Clapham and at Waterloo to get the Jubilee line.
     
  27. bicbasher

    bicbasher Established Member

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    One one of the local forums, there is a fear of a "mass exodus" of residents from Camberwell after the Overground is introduced. Bonkers!
     
  28. GodAtum

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    A recent Southern survey

     
  29. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Not sure what that has to do with it, but only 27% of people from Croydon have got the wrong train? I've got the wrong train before and I didn't think I was in a minority! (there's a thread for that here)
     
  30. elagueesti

    elagueesti Member

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    Had to chuckle at the idea of somebody going to Croydon from Clapham to get a train to London Bridge to catch the Jubilee Line. Priceless. :lol:
     
  31. bicbasher

    bicbasher Established Member

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    For those missing the direct services to Victoria, Southeastern are providing a not very useful one train per day on weekdays from Sevenoaks, calling at Denmark Hill at 1859, Clapham High Street at 1904 and Wandsworth Rd at 1905 arriving at 1914.

    http://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/W43553/2012/12/10

    There's also an early morning service from Victoria at 0530 calling at Wandsworth Road at 0536, Clapham High Street at 0537, Denmark Hill 0543, Peckham Rye 0546 then fast to Bromley South.

    http://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/W43209/2012/12/10
     
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