Arguing with ticket inspectors - this is the way to do it!

[digitaltoast]

I hear a lot of people are getting caught out by the "simpler" fare structure, and I also remember the pregnant woman fined for standing in first class as there was no-one else. Well....

My girlfriend used to travel by train a lot for business, often multi-point journeys, and she was introduced to a "private" ticketing agent who was retired from the railways, but still operated a "convenience" ticket service for complicated business - you paid a small subscription per year, and a couple of quid premium on each ticket, and in return, he would save her often hundreds. He was a ticketing genius and knew all the tricks the normal agents didn't. Lets say you had to go (oh, something daft like) Gatwick > Waterloo > Swindon > Birmingham > London in a day, the normal price would be, say, £180, and he'd get it for £60 by doing something weird like making her buy a £3 covering ticket which did something strange around London, and making her ticket valid via Gomshall or somewhere I've never heard of, allowing her to use an off-peak fare at a peak time. Don't ask, all I know is that part of the service was that he would provide, with the tickets, a printout showing how he'd done it and what part of the fare book rules covered what he'd done.

And so, the ticket inspector would come along. And he would get one chance and one chance only. If he didn't understand the ticket, she would suggest he check his fare manual for (eg: section 15 para 7, "travel via Gomshall on the Gatwick express where the first tuesday in the month falls on a full moon"). If he accepted, everything would be fine.

If he dared to try and charge her a full fare, that was it! Her business partner told me it was a thing of glory to watch - she would verbally beat the little Hitler down in front of a full carriage. She would not stop until she got an apology. Then she'd settle in for 5 more minutes scolding, and as soon as he managed to escape, she would flip open the laptop and get going on a letter to report him, and she ALWAYS got an apology and a train voucher!

Of course, there are many good inspectors (sorry, should that be "Customer Experience Revenue Advisor Team Leader" now?) but those bitter unsmiling know-it-alls who don't know it all fully deserve the ire! So, got any good similar stories?

 

[Daniel]

I don't have such a story, but do have to say, good on her, thanks for sharing!!

 

[yorkie]

A person of large build who is (was?) a guard on the Chiltern bubble car (a lot of people will know who I mean ) kept objecting to (perfectly valid) tickets for some trips in 2005/2006.

Firstly, he tried to 'ching' someone who was aged 16 who had a 'CHFAM' ticket (family railcard discounted), which was valid as he was under 16 when the railcard was bought. The guard denied knowledge of this rule. So I told him to look it up in the NFM. He brought the NFM and sat down and read it in front of us. When it got to the bit that proved him wrong, he slammed the NFM shut, walked to his guards compartment, slammed the door and did not check any more tickets for the rest of the journey (he was about half way through), I think due to embarrasment. He had only decided to pick on this person because, prior to the Bubble car departing, he had taken a photo of the bubble car. The guard objected but the person took photos anyway.

Anyway we saw him again a year or so later, and he was at the barriers at Aylesbury. He tried to stop us getting out to the local supermarket for food supplies, saying we could not "break our journey" on our Amersham-Princes Risborough CDRs. I then went to the ticket office but the person there backed the guard up. So I asked him to get the manual out. "Break of journey = Yes", When proved wrong he said "they've changed it". I said "No they haven't, but thank you" and walked through the barrier

I wrote to complain after the second incident and got an apology for both incidents.

We also had a guard on SWT moan at us for double-backing between Fratton and Portsmouth on a London to Lymington ticket, and also for going via Fratton in the first place. He was wrong on both counts. I just argued our case and he gave the standard reply for people who are wrong which was "I'll let you off, don't do it again".

I had an issue on Grand Central when I used a Saver during the Christmas holidays. Saver restrictions had been lifted, and GC had to honour that, but the guard (who I am told has since left, I've certainly never seen him again) who was very dopey (totally unlike the other guards!!!) just didn't have a clue. He also let me off, and I didn't really have to argue.

I can't really think of any more, which isn't bad out of several hundred journeys!

I'll have to try an 8A Gretna ticket out of King's Cross at peak time one day and see what NXEC say

 

[class 313]

Anyway we saw him again a year or so later, and he was at the barriers at Aylesbury. He tried to stop us getting out to the local supermarket for food supplies, saying we could not "break our journey" on our Amersham-Princes Risborough CDRs. I then went to the ticket office but the person there backed the guard up. So I asked him to get the manual out. "Break of journey = Yes", When proved wrong he said "they've changed it". I said "No they haven't, but thank you" and walked through the barrier

The look on his face when he read it in the manual, and then the tone of his voice "hmm errmmm yeah, they have changed it".

 

[AlexS]

There's a miserable old fart on the barriers at Loughborough who I have great fun winding up on a regular basis.

The latest one was I was travelling on a East Mids 3 in 7 rover which I happen to know lights up the 'Seek Assistance' bit on ticket barriers rather than let you through.

So instead of holding up the queue for the barriers by using it first, I just asked him to let me through, which he did with a grudging 'They work through there, I know they do', at which point I offered to put it through and show him, to the sound of 'no you don't, on your way sonny'. Too late, and he was left with a red blustering face, as ever.

There's also a rather large fellow formerly with huge thick glasses which he's traded in for a slightly more modern pair based at Shrewsbury who although I get on with him fine because he has an interest in the GCR, I have seen some whopper smackdown laid by him on several groups, especially teenagers hiding the bog. One was a total fine totalling 200 quid for a large group hiding in the bogs throughout the 3 car train, another was two kids who picked up tickets off the floor in front of him and tried to pass them off - the train was stood at the station for 25 minutes while he bellowed at them to get off and wouldn't budge - I got off there anyway, but living next to the line I heard it depart - I can only assume they got off or he got the plod out.

 

[digitaltoast]

I have seen some whopper smackdown

great phrase!

laid by him on several groups, especially teenagers hiding the bog. One was a total fine totalling 200 quid for a large group hiding in the bogs throughout the 3 car train, another was two kids who picked up tickets off the floor in front of him and tried to pass them off - the train was stood at the station for 25 minutes while he bellowed at them to get off and wouldn't budge - I got off there anyway, but living next to the line I heard it depart - I can only assume they got off or he got the plod out.

Oh, I kind of like the sound of him! Groups of thuggy bog-hiding kids are rather a different kettle of fish (or toilet of chavs) to your law abiding traveller type!

 

[jopsuk]

I've only had one problem wth an RPI ever. And it wasn't even over tickets- I'd gone to the loo, leaving my newspaper on my seat (on a pretty quiet train). You'd have though the big bag on the rack and the jacket on the overhead rack would have been a clue someone was there, but no, one of them had rifled through (this being a sunday) and taken the main and sports sections. As I was coming back, the train slowed and stopped- I got back to my seat, and realised what had happened. Doors were still open, and I could see the guy dissapearing up a private stairwell, so I shouted after him, and he sheepishly returned what he'd taken.

 

[TEW]

I buy Devon Day Rangers from a non-intercity FGW station and know that they don't work through the barriers and to avoid holding everyone up just go straight to the person standing there, not once will they accept it wont work and insist I put it through.

 

[devon_metro]

Keep your ticket away from you phone, a mistake I always make. Plymouth (normally unstaffed anyway) and Exeter barriers always churn it back up.

 

[Jordy]

What annoys me is when you put your ticket into the barrier, it says Seek Assistance, so you go to the manual gate, only to be told to put it through the barrier so they can see it saying Seek Assistance before they let you through! Can be a real pain, particularly when you're in a rush!

 

[me123]

I know: I've never understood why they can't just take the ticket from you and bin in two minutes later. At Aberdeen (and some of the newer ticket barriers around Scotland) the manual gate has largely been replaced by a wide automatic gate. I think they still have a manual one, but it's not always manned becausde they expect disabled users and people with lots of luggage to use the wider gates.

 

[Jordy]

I know: I've never understood why they can't just take the ticket from you and bin in two minutes later.

Yes, but I was mainly talking about rovers and travelcards, all they have to do is push the gate open!

 

[me123]

I know! I used a season ticket years ago going to work experience and some used to let me through, others tried to make me use the barriers.

One time I was on a ticket Blairhill-Edinburgh Waverley, and this was the first time with the barriers (they'd only been in place a few days). It ate my ticket up and they wouldn't believe me! :cry: I finally got them to fish it out and apologise.

 

[devon_metro]

Also when barrier staff (Cardiff Queens Street) seem pretty hacked off that you are asking them for assistance. Not my fault is it :roll:

 

[Techniquest]

I find they're all like that. You get the look they seem to give faredodgers, even if you are on a perfectly valid, simple out-and-back CDR from Central! They might as well say 'You're interrupting my 'me-time' on this job, go away'...God help you if you approach with a rover...

I believe, though, the 'Seek Assistance' thing is to allow them to check your date boxes.

 

[Mojo]

It's also worth bearing in mind that the encoding on rail tickets is ancient technology and ticket barriers everywhere can't be programmed to deal with any type of rover they will come across.

 

[Jordy]

Indeed, but I don't have a problem with using the manual gates, but I do have a problem with staff who won't let you through!

 

[Krispo]

In the Liverpool stations, when you go through the manuel gate, they don't even check, you just have to flash your ticket at them.

I had a bit of trouble once when the ticket office was shut at Rice Lane. The RPI just wasn't having any of it. I made him phone up the ticket office, he was gutted when there was no answer.

 

[class 313]

In the Liverpool stations, when you go through the manuel gate, they don't even check, you just have to flash your ticket at them.

I'd be careful what you say. Train company's do look around the net.

 

[Max]

I'd be careful what you say. Train company's do look around the net.

Doubt anything will change. If they properly checked at Leeds there would be MASSIVE delays, oh, wait, isn't that what's planned in the form of silly automatic barriers? :roll:

 

[class 313]

Doubt anything will change. If they properly checked at Leeds there would be MASSIVE delays, oh, wait, isn't that what's planned in the form of silly automatic barriers? :roll:

What I meant is, what Krispo said could be a form of trying to dodge a check by flashing any ticket at the person on the barrier. I've known of situations where someone posted something similar and got contacted by the TOC.

 

[Max]

What I meant is, what Krispo said could be a form of trying to dodge a check by flashing any ticket at the person on the barrier. I've known of situations where someone posted something similar and got contacted by the TOC.

I know its slightly different, but try contacting every user of Leeds station, because all anybody ever does is flash a ticket. In fact, sometimes the barrier staff look annoyed when you show a ticket to them for a prologned amount of time

 

[class 313]

I know its slightly different, but try contacting every user of Leeds station, because all anybody ever does is flash a ticket. In fact, sometimes the barrier staff look annoyed when you show a ticket to them for a prologned amount of time

Yes I have got that too at various stations around the network! Also on some London buses!

 

[Max]

Yes I have got that too at various stations around the network! Also on some London buses!

I think you could get away with anything on London Buses!

 

[AlexS]

The famous New Street McDonalds Box Ticket Flash sadly no longer works ever since Central and LM put their own staff on the barriers rather than private security.

Not that I ever fare dodge anyway (local line has a team of very efficient, but friendly, dedicated RPIs based locally who check the train thoroughly after every station) but it was always amusing to see what you could get away with with a valid ticket in your pocket.

 

[Jordy]

Yes indeed, I once tried showing a 'VOID VOID VOID VOID VOID VOID' ticket (with a valid one hidden further down in my ticket wallet!), they didn't bat an eyelid!

 

[jopsuk]

What I meant is, what Krispo said could be a form of trying to dodge a check by flashing any ticket at the person on the barrier. I've known of situations where someone posted something similar and got contacted by the TOC.

Like to see them try to make an off-the-cuff forum post under a pseudonym stand up in a court of law as evidence of fare dodging...

 

[yorkie]

What I meant is, what Krispo said could be a form of trying to dodge a check by flashing any ticket at the person on the barrier. I've known of situations where someone posted something similar and got contacted by the TOC.

Oh? Which TOC? What did they say?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The famous New Street McDonalds Box Ticket Flash sadly no longer works ever since Central and LM put their own staff on the barriers rather than private security.

Walking past them like a zombie works. This old woman in front of us did exactly that, not showing anything. The guy there just stood like a statue, I then went through, ticket in hand but not showing it, I pointed and looked in disbelief and said "I'll show you my ticket, but what about her?" he suddenly became all apologetic giving reasons why they are powerless to stop anyone just walking past.

We then tried to follow her to inform the guard what she was up to, but she was quite clever and kept changing her mind which train she was getting and ours was due to leave so we gave up.

 

[87015]

Oh? Which TOC? What did they say?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Walking past them like a zombie works. This old woman in front of us did exactly that, not showing anything. The guy there just stood like a statue, I then went through, ticket in hand but not showing it, I pointed and looked in disbelief and said "I'll show you my ticket, but what about her?" he suddenly became all apologetic giving reasons why they are powerless to stop anyone just walking past.

We then tried to follow her to inform the guard what she was up to, but she was quite clever and kept changing her mind which train she was getting and ours was due to leave so we gave up.

Why conclude she was on the eff just for ignoring the most useless barrier in history? I rarely bother to show them a ticket and stroll past as is normal process for most of us semi-regulars. If they can't be bothered to even look when you do have something out I'm not bothering to take the effort to get a piece out! The ones on the back exit are even worse!!

 

[TheSlash]

The gate staff at Waterloo in the peak are similar to the situation Yorkie described. On the local trains, you quite often get beggers working through the train. When they get to Waterloo they just ignore the barrier staff and stroll off down the station