Arriva 175 outside Manchester Piccadilly?

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mspljd1990

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Hi, first post here and this has no doubt been asked before. But why is it that whenever I go to Manchester Piccadilly there is always an empty Arriva Trains Wales class 175 parked outside, on the approach? It's been sat there since at least 2011.
 
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1D53

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Not the same one all that time. Some hours in the day units that arrive in Platform 13 shunt out to wait outside the station before their next workings through Platform 14, this can be about 55 minutes on some occasions.
 

Harbornite

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Hi, it isn't the same unit. I don't know the area that well but I assume that you are referring to a siding where these units are stabled between duties.
 

mspljd1990

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Ah that makes sense, cheers. :) Just that literally every time I've got a train to Piccadilly there's always been one there!
 

Mugby

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Ah that makes sense, cheers. :) Just that literally every time I've got a train to Piccadilly there's always been one there!

I always think the same.

It does tend to make you wonder if it's the same one been stood there for years!
 

LNW-GW Joint

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That's Mayfield Siding, and it's used for trains reversing in P13 at Piccadilly.
The FNW/ATW Chester/North Wales service has reversed there for many years, but the turnround time went up from about 25 minutes to 55 minutes several years ago, so they are parked there for longer.
More recently, ATW has been continuing some early/late services to Manchester Airport, where they have 20 minutes or so to turn round.
Since May, most off-peak services go to the Airport, leaving just the peak services to turn round at Mayfield.
It will probably all change when NR builds new platforms 15/16 at Piccadilly.
In the past, some trains have turned round at Longsight, or even Stockport.
 
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PHILIPE

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They work an hourly service from Llandudno, and due to a lay over of nearly an hour have to go to Mayfield Siding to await time to return to Llandudno. Some of them, however, go through to Manchester Airport instead of laying over.
 

craigybagel

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And the loco hauled services go to Longsight because at 5 MkIII + 67 they're too long for the loop.

I've seen Northern services in there occasionally too - usually late running Airport services from Southport/Liverpool that get turned around early at Piccadilly.
 

Stuwhu

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When this sort of thing happens, what do the driver and guard do for 55 minutes?? Read the paper?
 

Ianno87

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When this sort of thing happens, what do the driver and guard do for 55 minutes?? Read the paper?

Yep. Or sit in a bay of 4 and have a chat. You can usually see them sat in the unit as you pass (they're effectively trapped there, as I don't believe there is any safe walking route to or from the loop)

Don't know if it counts as a break or working time on their rosters. In theory they have toilet access on the train, but they'd have to bring their own lunch/brew whatever with them beforehand.
 

craigybagel

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Yep. Or sit in a bay of 4 and have a chat. You can usually see them sat in the unit as you pass (they're effectively trapped there, as I don't believe there is any safe walking route to or from the loop)

Don't know if it counts as a break or working time on their rosters. In theory they have toilet access on the train, but they'd have to bring their own lunch/brew whatever with them beforehand.

It doesn't count as a break as to be a valid PNB it has to be in an approved messroom. Whilst ATW do have access to one at Manchester Piccadilly if needs be it's a little awkward to get to on foot from Mayfield loop!
 

headshot119

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It doesn't count as a break as to be a valid PNB it has to be in an approved messroom. Whilst ATW do have access to one at Manchester Piccadilly if needs be it's a little awkward to get to on foot from Mayfield loop!

Out on interest is the turn round at the airport counted as a PNB?
 

PHILIPE

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There is no requirement for a PNB at Manchester. All trips can be accomplished between Chester and Manchester and back well within the stipulated hours without a PNB
 

6Gman

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Out on interest is the turn round at the airport counted as a PNB?

A 20" turnround couldn't possibly be a PNB.

By the time you'd shut the unit down, walked to the messroom, walked back, and restarted the unit ... the PNB would probably be a minus figure!

:D
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Hi, first post here and this has no doubt been asked before. But why is it that whenever I go to Manchester Piccadilly there is always an empty Arriva Trains Wales class 175 parked outside, on the approach? It's been sat there since at least 2011.

It's weirder than that - sometimes it transforms into a 158 or a 150!

:D
 

Andyh82

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It doesn't count as a break as to be a valid PNB it has to be in an approved messroom. Whilst ATW do have access to one at Manchester Piccadilly if needs be it's a little awkward to get to on foot from Mayfield loop!

I bet it's all drivers and conductors favourite duty then, getting paid for 55 mins doing nowt!
 

Johncleesefan

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I believe its a fairly common thing that happens nation wide.
Gwr services that terminate and re start in Cardiff spend 40 mins booked at the west of Cardiff usually in the brickyard siding. Again, still classed as driving time with little driving to be done once behind the signal :)
 

aformeruser

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If you arrive at Piccadilly at around 18:30 on a weeknight you get a 158 sat outside Piccadilly instead of the 175 which proves it isn't always the same 175 sat there.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I bet it's all drivers and conductors favourite duty then, getting paid for 55 mins doing nowt!

The timings were set up to provide extra resilience in the service, and also to position for the extension to Manchester Airport.
It meant adding another unit into the diagrams.
This way the extension costs ATW "nothing", as the resources are already in place and paid for.
Much the same thing happened to ATW Cambrian services in Birmingham when they were extended from New St to Birmingham International.
 

tiptoptaff

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I believe its a fairly common thing that happens nation wide.
Gwr services that terminate and re start in Cardiff spend 40 mins booked at the west of Cardiff usually in the brickyard siding. Again, still classed as driving time with little driving to be done once behind the signal :)

They don't sit out there for that long, come back in for tanking and cleaning after about 15
 

Johncleesefan

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Thanks, I'm aware of how long they usually spend there. I'm talking about how long they can be diagrammed out there
 
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