Arriva Buses (including Greenline)

[A0wen]

724 to Heathrow is now £12 single, which i think is a bit of a rip off, the Arriva Herts & Essex, All Zone ticket, isn't valid to Heathrow, but the All Zone looks like it's valid to Uxbridge (i thought it was Maple Cross), so change at Uxbridge for the TfL A10, Arriva All Zone day ticket £7.90, the TfL A10, £1.65, even returning on the A10 then 724 you're still saving money

£12 single from where?

If it's Watford or Rickmansworth then it's probably cheaper than the train.

 

[Megafuss]

724 to Heathrow is now £12 single, which i think is a bit of a rip off, the Arriva Herts & Essex, All Zone ticket, isn't valid to Heathrow, but the All Zone looks like it's valid to Uxbridge (i thought it was Maple Cross), so change at Uxbridge for the TfL A10, Arriva All Zone day ticket £7.90, the TfL A10, £1.65, even returning on the A10 then 724 you're still saving money

The fares are a bit naughty as it only costs £150 for a London Service Permit. Unless I am missing something

 

[Statto]

The fares are a bit naughty as it only costs £150 for a London Service Permit. Unless I am missing something

Well on First Berkshire, you can use normal First Day tickets, & there's no premium fares on there buses to & from Heathrow, so it's puzzling.

 

[markymark2000]

Well on First Berkshire, you can use normal First Day tickets, & there's no premium fares on there buses to & from Heathrow, so it's puzzling.

Possibly trying to justify the costs of the extension. They could cut back the route to terminate at Uxbridge and save a bus and so the cost of Heathrow is the full cost of the additional bus.

Do Heathrow charge departure fees perhaps and First absorb the costs due to the number of passengers or perhaps a funding agreement that fares won't increase.

 

[A0wen]

Well on First Berkshire, you can use normal First Day tickets, & there's no premium fares on there buses to & from Heathrow, so it's puzzling.

Not really comparable - there will be a lot of local travel between places like Slough and Heathrow for work etc. The 724 is a longer distance service, not really designed to offer short journeys i.e. it is limited stop through most of the towns it runs through.

Possibly trying to justify the costs of the extension. They could cut back the route to terminate at Uxbridge and save a bus and so the cost of Heathrow is the full cost of the additional bus.

If the 724 was to be curtailed, Watford would be the logical place - which is what London Country did with it for 2 or 3 years in the 1980s. The demand beyond Watford through Rickmansworth, Denham and Maple Cross isn't that great and could be handled in a better way.

 

[Non Multi]

Heathrow are well known for dishing out funding for direct bus routes to enhance or retain connectivity.

There's plenty of routes that have 'premium' fares to the airport, obviously most use coaches but First Railair have used single deckers from Slough depot when a coach has been unavailable.

 

[philthetube]

£12 single from where?

If it's Watford or Rickmansworth then it's probably cheaper than the train.

£12 from anywhere on the 724 to Heathrow, It is a service which would not exist if travelcards were accepted and fares were low so you accept it or not as you wish.

 

[A0wen]

£12 from anywhere on the 724 to Heathrow, It is a service which would not exist if travelcards were accepted and fares were low so you accept it or not as you wish.

Well £ 12 from Watford isn't unreasonable - £ 12 from anywhere further than Watford is a bargain.

Why on earth should Travelcards be accepted on it ? The only bit which is in TFL's area is from Uxbridge to Heathrow and there are plenty of local buses to cover that. Even if you go back to the time of London Transport operating Green Line, Green Line fares were higher and normal fares weren't accepted on the Green Line services (including some staff passes).

 

[2192]

Arriva Routes 8 & 8a Derby - Mackworth: What's the difference? Arriva's website and map doesn't help. The timetable says they alternate at certain times of the day, but at other times they are all 8's. It's no use looking at bus stops as some still indicate 29, the old number for route 9, which no longer passes the stops in question! (Thanks in advance).

 

[A0wen]

Arriva Routes 8 & 8a Derby - Mackworth: What's the difference? Arriva's website and map doesn't help. The timetable says they alternate at certain times of the day, but at other times they are all 8's. It's no use looking at bus stops as some still indicate 29, the old number for route 9, which no longer passes the stops in question! (Thanks in advance).

These suggest there is a different route around the Mackworth estate

8 - Derby - Mackworth

Arriva Derby

bustimes.org

8 - Derby - Mackworth

Arriva Derby

bustimes.org

 

[philthetube]

Well £ 12 from Watford isn't unreasonable - £ 12 from anywhere further than Watford is a bargain.

Why on earth should Travelcards be accepted on it ? The only bit which is in TFL's area is from Uxbridge to Heathrow and there are plenty of local buses to cover that. Even if you go back to the time of London Transport operating Green Line, Green Line fares were higher and normal fares weren't accepted on the Green Line services (including some staff passes).

Totally agree, what I was saying was that if low fares/travelcards were available from the airport to Uxbridge then the whole service would become unviable beyond Watford.

 

[duncombec]

These suggest there is a different route around the Mackworth estate

8 - Derby - Mackworth

Arriva Derby

bustimes.org

8 - Derby - Mackworth

Arriva Derby

bustimes.org

Quite an odd one, it seems - on Mon-Fri only, half the service doesn't serve part of Mackworth Estate, but all of the service does on Saturdays/Sundays. Is there something up there that would render that difficult (school parking)?

The map on the (ever excellent) Derbysbus.info site (updated last week) shows the difference: https://www.derbysbus.info/images/derby_a.pdf

 

[Llandudno]

Arriva Routes 8 & 8a Derby - Mackworth: What's the difference? Arriva's website and map doesn't help. The timetable says they alternate at certain times of the day, but at other times they are all 8's. It's no use looking at bus stops as some still indicate 29, the old number for route 9, which no longer passes the stops in question! (Thanks in advance).

Ah! The legendary incomprehensible Arriva website…!

 

[station_road]

Quite an odd one, it seems - on Mon-Fri only, half the service doesn't serve part of Mackworth Estate, but all of the service does on Saturdays/Sundays. Is there something up there that would render that difficult (school parking)?

The map on the (ever excellent) Derbysbus.info site (updated last week) shows the difference: https://www.derbysbus.info/images/derby_a.pdf

It does show the route on Arriva Derby's fare zone map. The 8a covers part of the 9 route that was recently withdrawn (goes both ways along Prince Charles Avenue), so it provides a direct bus from the shops there to Henley Green which may be useful for some people

Arriva Derby bus map

 

[darloscott]

Well on First Berkshire, you can use normal First Day tickets, & there's no premium fares on there buses to & from Heathrow, so it's puzzling.

No premium fares? I thought the fare between Staines and Heathrow was very steep, at £4.50! Sadly I had no other option when my TfL red bus failed to show.

 

[2192]

Thanks, everybody. The difference between Arriva 8 and 8a in Derby is now very clear. I didn't realise the 9 was withdrawn, but I'm not surprised. Ashbourne Rd is frequently clogged up with traffic, and it didn't serve many houses not served by the 8/8a.

 

[Statto]

No premium fares? I thought the fare between Staines and Heathrow was very steep, at £4.50! Sadly I had no other option when my TfL red bus failed to show.

First Berkshire fares look pretty steep anyway, £8 on board, or £7.80 online, for the First Berkshire network day ticket, compare that with £7.90 for Arriva Herts & Essex, all zones day ticket, which is a much bigger area & includes Oxford & Reading.

£12 single (effectively £24 return) to Heathrow, from anywhere on the 724 is not reasonable fare, it's a rip off, for what is an express bus service, as i said those who are savvy use the 724 to Uxbridge then get the TfL A10, if Arriva have to have special premium fares to Heathrow, then £8 or £9 single would be better value

 

[A0wen]

£12 single (effectively £24 return) to Heathrow, from anywhere on the 724 is not reasonable fare, it's a rip off, for what is an express bus service, as i said those who are savvy use the 724 to Uxbridge then get the TfL A10, if Arriva have to have special premium fares to Heathrow, then £8 or £9 single would be better value

Why ?

Watford is 20 miles from Heathrow - that's about 60p a mile - hardly excessive or unreasonable for a link to a major airport.

According to the published taxi rates by Watford Borough Council a taxi would be over £ 50, the train will be at least £ 35. The bus is a third of the train and about 1/5th of a taxi.

 

[Statto]

That it's 20 miles is irrelevant, you can go from Watford to Harlow on the 724 which is more than 20 miles & still pay normal fares & use relevant passes

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

That it's 20 miles is irrelevant, you can go from Watford to Harlow on the 724 which is more than 20 miles & still pay normal fares & use relevant passes

Yeah but premium fares to an airport aren’t unknown, even in Europe

 

[philthetube]

Totally agree, what I was saying was that if low fares/travelcards were available from the airport to Uxbridge then the whole service would become unviable beyond Watford.

That it's 20 miles is irrelevant, you can go from Watford to Harlow on the 724 which is more than 20 miles & still pay normal fares & use relevant passes

You are right it is expensive, and Arriva is a business, there is no need to use this service if you don't want to.

Incidentally you can travel off peak on the Underground from Watford to heathrow for £2.10

 

[A0wen]

Incidentally you can travel off peak on the Underground from Watford to heathrow for £2.10

Oyster only, plus you have to change at Harrow on the Hill, Rayners Lane and Acton Town. It also takes about 90 mins according to TFL's website.

Yeah but premium fares to an airport aren’t unknown, even in Europe

And has been the case to Heathrow for a while. The Heathrow Connect, now Elizabeth Line services are over £6 PaaYG from Hayes & Harlington (the next stop towards London).

 

[Andyh82]

Union members at Arriva Yorkshire have announced indefinite strike action over pay starting 6th June

https://twitter.com/uniteneyh/status/1528786991856467972?s=21&t=mTKmNeiTvojNemGoUPlZeg

Arriva offered 4.1%, the union want substantially more

 

[A0wen]

A couple of changes being reported in Hertfordshire on the Intalink website:

June 2022

This is a summary of the forthcoming changes to local bus services in Hertfordshire in June 2022

www.intalink.org.uk

Arriva are taking over the Sunday operation of the 304 (Wheathampstead - St Albans) and 357 (St Albans - Redbourn) from Uno.

They're also taking over the operation of the 390 (Stevenage - Hertford) from Richmond's coaches and the Saturday operation of the SB 10 (Stevenage local) also from Richmonds.

July 2022

This is a summary of the forthcoming changes to local bus services in Hertfordshire in July 2022

www.intalink.org.uk

And from the 24th July they are adding additional early morning and late evening journeys to the 724.

 

[johntea]

I caught Arriva from Castleford Bus Station to Xscape this evening and after asking for a return ticket was informed my only options were 2 singles at £1.80 each or a day pass (£4.20 Castleford Urban)

The driver reckoned there used to be return fares available in the past

Matches the £3.60 anytime day return on the train although actually 60p more expensive than the train for travel during off peak hours!

 

[Andy Pacer]

I caught Arriva from Castleford Bus Station to Xscape this evening and after asking for a return ticket was informed my only options were 2 singles at £1.80 each or a day pass (£4.20 Castleford Urban)

The driver reckoned there used to be return fares available in the past

Matches the £3.60 anytime day return on the train although actually 60p more expensive than the train for travel during off peak hours!

Far cry from the bargain basement fares that M Travel used to charge when they were operating!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I caught Arriva from Castleford Bus Station to Xscape this evening and after asking for a return ticket was informed my only options were 2 singles at £1.80 each or a day pass (£4.20 Castleford Urban)

The driver reckoned there used to be return fares available in the past

Matches the £3.60 anytime day return on the train although actually 60p more expensive than the train for travel during off peak hours!

Been like that for a good while on Arriva Yorkshire- returns being withdrawn in favour of the different town/region day tickets. Yorkshire Tiger was similar before it went to Transdev- no returns since Centrebus days, and Transdev don't do returns either.

Agree it's a pain for shorter out-and-back journeys, or those that cross between the different "Urban" zones such as Ossett to Dewsbury (Ossett being in Wakefield Urban zone) or Batley to Wakefield (Batley being in Dewsbury Urban zone) requiring a full West Yorkshire zone ticket.

 

[Volvo142]

Arriva Derby have recently reintroduced return tickets. On my route, a return is a whopping 30 pence cheaper than a day-saver!

Single: £2.60
Return £4.30
Day Saver £4.60

 

[Andyh82]

Been like that for a good while on Arriva Yorkshire- returns being withdrawn in favour of the different town/region day tickets. Yorkshire Tiger was similar before it went to Transdev- no returns since Centrebus days, and Transdev don't do returns either.

Agree it's a pain for shorter out-and-back journeys, or those that cross between the different "Urban" zones such as Ossett to Dewsbury (Ossett being in Wakefield Urban zone) or Batley to Wakefield (Batley being in Dewsbury Urban zone) requiring a full West Yorkshire zone ticket.

I think returns were never really a thing in West Yorks. Some operators have introduced them on certain routes over the years, probably as a result of competition etc, but I don’t think they were ever widespread.

In West Yorks back in the 80/90s the ‘off peak maximum fare’ was the thing they focussed on to keep fares down, and that generally went out of favour with the day ticket taking over, which was generally costing not much more than 2 trips

 

[Andy Pacer]

Arriva Derby have recently reintroduced return tickets. On my route, a return is a whopping 30 pence cheaper than a day-saver!

Single: £2.60
Return £4.30
Day Saver £4.60

They've also been available in Leicester for quite some time, although it's sometimes better value to purchase a day ticket on longer journeys.