Arriva Rail Northern to be stripped of franchise

[conjohn]

https://www.independent.co.uk/trave...happs-cancellations-train-fares-a9267261.html

​

Northern Rail is to be stripped of its franchise because of its "unacceptable" performance, transport secretary Grant Shapps has said.

"I'm simply not prepared for the service on Northern to carry on as it is and I am taking action," he told BBC Breakfast.

It comes as rail fares across the UK rose by an average of 2.7 per cent.

​

edit: amended with correct quoting as per mods, I’d incorrectly used indented text.

This initially sounds promising but sadly will likely not result in any sort of impactful change

​

 

[williamn]

Meaningless virtue-signalling. Won’t do anything to help late delivery of trains, lack of drivers or make NR deliver improvements on time.

 

[Glenn1969]

But he didn't actually say they would be stripped of the franchise. He just said he is taking action which is not quite the same thing

 

[Djgr]

And about time too. What a disgrace they have been.

 

[Glenn1969]

Putting another operator in place won't solve anything though

 

[Djgr]

Putting another operator in place won't solve anything though

It's a matter of principle.

 

[PR1Berske]

A case of "be careful what you wish for," I fear.

 

[bobblebob]

Realistically will it change anything or improve punctuality?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Stale news.
In October he asked for bids to run the Northern operation on a short-term management contract.
Either Arriva will get a much reduced contract, or it will go to the Operator of Last Resort function of DfT.
Note that Arriva has claims against the DfT/NR for late or non-delivery of their side of the franchise agreement.

 

[Failed Unit]

Putting another operator in place won't solve anything though

How do you know? You could look at it as they can’t do any worse.
However I agree it seems harsh as both TPE and GTR live on. (Although GTR seem to have got better)

 

[PR1Berske]

Realistically will it change anything or improve punctuality?

Short term, no.

But imagine if responsibility is devolved to the Metro Mayors and Rail North/TfN, who suddenly find that they have to choose how little money is given to Preston - Ormskirk because they've got Gtr Manchester commuters to placate.

It's a very complex issue and one which isn't resolved by just getting the OLR in place from March 31.

 

[bobblebob]

Seems a politically motivated move more than anything. Tories won alot of seats in the North and need to keep the north happy now. This will be seen as a move to show they do support the north.

Northern have been terrible for years, Goverment did nothing then.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Putting another operator in place won't solve anything though

Not in the short term but as Northern clearly had no long term plan to resolve their long-standing driver and unit shortages it's the right decision.

 

[Gems]

Won't solve anything in the short term.
Arriva have packed the management positions with managers who quite frankly are an embarrassment. In all my years on the railway I have never seen so much disjointed decision making. These people create delays and cancellations. There is no future in stripping a franchise off Arriva if these people get to keep their jobs. Get rid of them.

But even then the problem isn't that simple.
The first mistake was bringing 'First North Western' and 'Arriva Trains North' together in the first place. The old Arriva was actually a good company to work for, then the Germans got a hold of them. It should never have happened, and that was the fault of the last Labour government.
You simply cannot bring two companies together when the workers are on different terms and conditions. It just doesn't work, and what we have now is two opposite poles of the magnet pushing against each other.

I'll say this also. The east side of this franchise generally works, the west is a total basket case. I think we are all now getting fed up over here on the east of crews on the west side blatantly obstructing progress. We are covering their work a lot of the time, and I for one am sick to death of it. Split the franchise and sort that lot out once and for all. We are supposed to be providing a service for the public. You wouldn't think so looking at it.

 

[PR1Berske]

Seems a politically motivated move more than anything. Tories won alot of seats in the North and need to keep the north happy now. This will be seen as a move to show they do support the north.

Northern have been terrible for years, Goverment did nothing then.

But look at it from another perspective. They won seats in the North and are now doing something which resonates with many northern people. This is what Northern passengers have been demanding. And at face value at least is what they're getting.

I'm not entirely certain if there will be immediate results, none of us can, but let's not be so cynical.

"Transport Secretary does what voters demanded," is not a scandal!

 

[bobblebob]

Funny enough i filed an official complain to Northern who said they would reply in 20 work days. That was 5 week ago and heard nothing. So even their response to complaints are late

 

[YorkshireBear]

Won't solve anything in the short term.
Arriva have packed the management positions with managers who quite frankly are an embarrassment. In all my years on the railway I have never seen so much disjointed decision making. These people create delays and cancellations. There is no future in stripping a franchise off Arriva if these people get to keep their jobs. Get rid of them.

But even then the problem isn't that simple.
The first mistake was bringing 'First North Western' and 'Arriva Trains North' together in the first place. The old Arriva was actually a good company to work for, then the Germans got a hold of them. It should never have happened, and that was the fault of the last Labour government.
You simply cannot bring two companies together when the workers are on different terms and conditions. It just doesn't work, and what we have now is two opposite poles of the magnet pushing against each other.

I'll say this also. The east side of this franchise generally works, the west is a total basket case. I think we are all now getting fed up over here on the east of crews on the west side blatantly obstructing progress. We are covering their work a lot of the time, and I for one am sick to death of it. Split the franchise and sort that lot out once and for all. We are supposed to be providing a service for the public. You wouldn't think so looking at it.

I have seen rumblings during Christmas Period that Government had already made its mind up to scrap the Arriva Franchise in its current form and was planning on splitting the franchise (as it is too big) into a North East and North West side. They appear to have done the first bit, lets see if the second bit comes to fruition or if that is long term.

 

[superkev]

I think if I were a politician I'd wait till Northern have all the new trains in service, drivers trained, new recruits passed out and the Pacers withdrawn.
I could then step in claim to save the situation and make political capital.
Although, how they would get the West side crews to contract to work Sundays is open to speculation.
K

 

[Bantamzen]

And about time too. What a disgrace they have been.

It's a matter of principle.

Principles don't run trains though. If the problems across the network were solely the responsibility of Arriva, then fair enough punish them. But the problems are far from just mistakes made at Northern HQ. Stripping them of the franchise, if that is indeed what we are now looking at, won't solve any problems immediately.

Won't solve anything in the short term.
Arriva have packed the management positions with managers who quite frankly are an embarrassment. In all my years on the railway I have never seen so much disjointed decision making. These people create delays and cancellations. There is no future in stripping a franchise off Arriva if these people get to keep their jobs. Get rid of them.

But even then the problem isn't that simple.
The first mistake was bringing 'First North Western' and 'Arriva Trains North' together in the first place. The old Arriva was actually a good company to work for, then the Germans got a hold of them. It should never have happened, and that was the fault of the last Labour government.
You simply cannot bring two companies together when the workers are on different terms and conditions. It just doesn't work, and what we have now is two opposite poles of the magnet pushing against each other.

I'll say this also. The east side of this franchise generally works, the west is a total basket case. I think we are all now getting fed up over here on the east of crews on the west side blatantly obstructing progress. We are covering their work a lot of the time, and I for one am sick to death of it. Split the franchise and sort that lot out once and for all. We are supposed to be providing a service for the public. You wouldn't think so looking at it.

This is an interesting perspective, certainly from what I remember of the 'old' Arriva as a passenger in the last few years was a franchise that felt like it was being deliberately run down. However more interesting is the sentiments about the west side operation, is this really how east side crews are feeling. I do worry a bit about a split, the hot air generators in the corridors of power in Greater Manchester will make a lot more noise than anyone this side of the Pennines, which I fear will mean focusing almost completely on them leaving us with the scraggy ends of the franchise. It would be a shame for the east side to suffer to appease the west when all in all things haven't been too bad, with some genuine improvements here.

 

[HH]

This was always going to happen; Arriva have taken a Stagecoach-like approach with the same result. Opens the field for whatever comes out of the Williams Review.

 

[mpthomson]

Funny enough i filed an official complain to Northern who said they would reply in 20 work days. That was 5 week ago and heard nothing. So even their response to complaints are late

It’s been Christmas and New Year, depending on exactly when your complaint went in they could still be within timescales.

 

[bobblebob]

Won't solve anything in the short term.
Arriva have packed the management positions with managers who quite frankly are an embarrassment. In all my years on the railway I have never seen so much disjointed decision making. These people create delays and cancellations. There is no future in stripping a franchise off Arriva if these people get to keep their jobs. Get rid of them.

But even then the problem isn't that simple.
The first mistake was bringing 'First North Western' and 'Arriva Trains North' together in the first place. The old Arriva was actually a good company to work for, then the Germans got a hold of them. It should never have happened, and that was the fault of the last Labour government.
You simply cannot bring two companies together when the workers are on different terms and conditions. It just doesn't work, and what we have now is two opposite poles of the magnet pushing against each other.

I'll say this also. The east side of this franchise generally works, the west is a total basket case. I think we are all now getting fed up over here on the east of crews on the west side blatantly obstructing progress. We are covering their work a lot of the time, and I for one am sick to death of it. Split the franchise and sort that lot out once and for all. We are supposed to be providing a service for the public. You wouldn't think so looking at it.

How does this work then, will the management and people making the decisions still be the ones incharge or does the Goverment get rid of them too.

The staff at Northern always seem very nice, but the management needs to go

 

[yorksrob]

I hope Mr Shapps has got the DfT cheque book ready.

 

[bobblebob]

It’s been Christmas and New Year, depending on exactly when your complaint went in they could still be within timescales.

It was mid November i complained

 

[Bantamzen]

I hope Mr Shapps has got the DfT cheque book ready.

Well if he gives the magic money tree a shake.....

But let's be blunt here, there won't be any new money to come of this. Any new split and/or OLR will be expected to deliver with similar budgets, and maybe one or two headline busting changes to appease the noisiest complaints. But eventually the pressures will see some routes slashed, maybe even with a mini-Beeching program taking place. I'm not expecting this government to anything more.

 

[gavin]

Just breaking on sky news twitter

Transport Secretary Grant Shapps says Northern's rail franchise will be brought to an end following its poor performance

This is great news I hope they look at TPE next they're not much better.

 

[bobblebob]

Just breaking on sky news twitter



This is great news I hope they look at TPE next they're not much better.

TPE always seem ok to me. Granted its 50/50 if the train is on time, but not often delayed by alot and at least they do turn up

Main issue is overcrowding on the Leeds - Manchester line. Rarely get a seat no matter when you travel

 

[pdeaves]

You simply cannot bring two companies together when the workers are on different terms and conditions. It just doesn't work, and what we have now is two opposite poles of the magnet pushing against each other.

I predict that if there is a split, some 'east' people will end up in the new 'west' franchise, and vice versa. Thus, there will still be different terms and conditions, this time in two companies instead of one company.

Obviously, not the best result from most people's point of view, but that is the sort of solution we (as a nation) seem to create!

 

[PR1Berske]

But eventually the pressures will see some routes slashed, maybe even with a mini-Beeching program taking place

That seems unlikely.

 

[yorksrob]

Well if he gives the magic money tree a shake.....

But let's be blunt here, there won't be any new money to come of this. Any new split and/or OLR will be expected to deliver with similar budgets, and maybe one or two headline busting changes to appease the noisiest complaints. But eventually the pressures will see some routes slashed, maybe even with a mini-Beeching program taking place. I'm not expecting this government to anything more.

This is the fear. Hopefully even the Tory party wouldn't have the front to implement a mini-Beeching programme after getting elected on a 'policy' aspiration of reversing Beeching !