Article: The next TfL financial crunch will be wrapped in a purple ribbon, and labelled “Crossrail”.

[Basil Jet]

- In some places, banning taxis/private hire vehicles from bus lanes, if they regularly delay buses in a location

This already happens: the southbound bus lane at Angel Station is buses only from 7am to 7pm but allows taxis in at night, and the bus lane outside Kings Cross Station doesn't allow taxis at all.

 

[Wolfie]

Political duplicity at its finest. The Government refuses, uniquely compared to other transport providers, to fund TfL for CV issues. It demands cuts then ruling party MPs whinge over proposals to do so and demand that the Government take over TfL. Methinks said London Tory MPs will be out the door come the next general election.....

Take TfL off Sadiq Khan’s hands amid Tube strikes, says London MP

A prominent London MP on Thursday said the Government should consider taking Transport for London out of Sadiq Khan’s hands because of the ongoing Tube strikes and proposed bus cuts.

www.standard.co.uk

"A leading London MP on Thursday said the Government should consider taking Transport for London out of Sadiq Khan’s hands because of the ongoing Tube strikes and proposed bus cuts.

Nickie Aiken, the Tory MP for the Cities of London and Westminster, said the Government should consider stepping in to prevent further harm to Londoners."

 

[Robert Ambler]

That's an extreme attitude. Moorfields Eye Hospital is in City Road which, if memory serves, has a bus lane outside. If someone with severe mobility problems has an appointment at Moorfields, they should be denied the right to be dropped off outside?


Thank you. A balanced point of view from someone who, like me, has experience of how this policy works in practice.

The Emergency and Outpatients entrances at Moorfields are actually in Clayton Street which does not have a bus lane and would clearly be the best place to drop someone with mobility issues off.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Rather sick of everyone thinking the opening of the Elizabeth core means the Central line becomes irrelevant. It may come as a surprise to some people, but not every Central line journey has Bond Street, Tottenham Court Road, Liverpool Street or Stratford as both an origin and destination. There are many, many journeys to and from Oxford Circus, Bank, White City and Holborn for a start.

Agreed but my observation was that TfL would see the Central Line as an easy target to save money but lets hope not but govt have yet to coff up teh cash for another extension.

 

[Mojo]

Even so, that's more free rail travel than most of the country gets. Don't expect a lot of sympathy.

Most PTE areas offer free or discounted rail / metro travel to OAPs; the only exception being Tyne & Wear. In Manchester it’s subject to a £10 admin fee and in South Yorkshire it’s half rate. The other urban areas it’s free.

- In some places, banning taxis/private hire vehicles from bus lanes, if they regularly delay buses in a location

Private hire vehicles are already not allowed in bus lanes.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

The Emergency and Outpatients entrances at Moorfields are actually in Clayton Street which does not have a bus lane and would clearly be the best place to drop someone with mobility issues off.

Ah, thank you. Since retiring, I don't go into central London as often as I used to. My basic point however still stands even if Moorfields is not a good example.

Agreed but my observation was that TfL would see the Central Line as an easy target to save money but lets hope not but govt have yet to coff up teh cash for another extension.

How would this cull work in practice? The Elizabeth Line duplicates only the middle portion of the Central Line. Between Stratford and Epping or Hainault, the Central Line is still busy and a reduction in frequency will not be welcome.

 

[APT618S]

Most PTE areas offer free or discounted rail / metro travel to OAPs; the only exception being Tyne & Wear. In Manchester it’s subject to a £10 admin fee and in South Yorkshire it’s half rate. The other urban areas it’s free.

T&W do - they have the Metro Gold card, £12pa locals, £24pa non-locals:

Metro Gold Card | nexus.org.uk

www.nexus.org.uk

Can be used on Metro, Ferry and Rail (Newcastle to Sunderland).

 

[Wolfie]

Most PTE areas offer free or discounted rail / metro travel to OAPs; the only exception being Tyne & Wear. In Manchester it’s subject to a £10 admin fee and in South Yorkshire it’s half rate. The other urban areas it’s free.


Private hire vehicles are already not allowed in bus lanes.

There is a £20 admin fee to get an Over 60 Oyster card.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Ah, thank you. Since retiring, I don't go into central London as often as I used to. My basic point however still stands even if Moorfields is not a good example.


How would this cull work in practice? The Elizabeth Line duplicates only the middle portion of the Central Line. Between Stratford and Epping or Hainault, the Central Line is still busy and a reduction in frequency will not be welcome.

A lot of actions TfL are taking aren't welcome but until they squeezed the pot dry TfL ain't going to get a settlement out DfT

 

[Trainbike46]

A lot of actions TfL are taking aren't welcome but until they squeezed the pot dry TfL ain't going to get a settlement out DfT

but has reducing central line services actually been proposed anywhere other than this thread?

It's clear that TfL is really trying, with things like the sponsored tube map

 

[SynthD]

until they squeezed the pot dry TfL ain't going to get a settlement out DfT

And not even then. It’s beyond seeking financial sense, and has been for a while. Grayling’s refusal to devolve letter was nine years ago. The quote in comment #1 of this thread applies but not in the intended way.

I suspect the point about Moorfields cannot find a hospital to stand up on. Hospitals can ask for what they want.

 

[Taunton]

I think the answer is creating more bus only routes and bus lanes. It's not fair that a lot of buses get caught in congestion caused by cars!

I think it's not fair that me and my family, and all the others in cars in front and behind, are caught up in a single lane jam while the very occasional bus, with hardly anybody in them (invariably the case here) drive past.

Just in case the argument is that it "encourages" public transport use, it doesn't; the buses here are notably emptier than they were a generation ago with no bus lanes.

 

[Arkeeos]

Good lord we actually have people like this in charge of our railways?

He says that money could be better spent on improving roads, or providing electrical charging points, which would just encourage car use, which is the least efficient, least economical form of transportation in urban areas.

He says that Manchester isn't big enough for such projects like Crossrail, yet points to Hamburg and Lyon as countries it should look to emulate..... seemingly unknowing that those cities have had significantly more post war rail investment than Manchester.

He says *nothing* of the lower Thames crossing being massively overbudget, the purpose of which could no doubt be better served by more no-car oriented projects.

He also seems to be under the impression that the London underground operates under capacity (HA!)

He also seems to be perfectly content to maintain car infrastructure, yet loathes the thought that rail infrastructure would ever need to be maintained, (even though it is maintained at a much lower rate and cost than the roads.)

The sooner we get people like this out of the way the better.

And this isn't even mentioning the fact that the country is growing at a fast rate, it is near enough impossible to make a bad investment in transport right now. And god forbid we build anything with a slight amount of redundancy.

 

[43066]

I think it's not fair that me and my family, and all the others in cars in front and behind, are caught up in a single lane jam while the very occasional bus, with hardly anybody in them (invariably the case here) drive past.

Just in case the argument is that it "encourages" public transport use, it doesn't; the buses here are notably emptier than they were a generation ago with no bus lanes.

Are you really driving into London with your family on a regular basis? If so I’d have thought bus lanes were the least of your worries, given the congestion charge, Ulez, £30 per hour for parking etc.

Virtually nobody drives into London unless they’re behind the wheel of some kind of commercial vehicle or cab. If bus use has diminished that certainly isn’t an argument for encouraging more private vehicle use.

 

[Goldfish62]

Are you really driving into London with your family on a regular basis? If so I’d have thought bus lanes were the least of your worries, given the congestion charge, Ulez, £30 per hour for parking etc.

Virtually nobody drives into London unless they’re behind the wheel of some kind of commercial vehicle or cab. If bus use has diminished that certainly isn’t an argument for encouraging more private vehicle use.

I never understand why anyone would choose to drive a car in London. When I lived there I never owned one, as indeed the majority of London households still don't.

 

[43066]

I never understand why anyone would choose to drive a car in London. When I lived there I never owned one, as indeed the majority of London households still don't.

Agreed. Ironically the only people I know who do so are traincrew at my depot, but we can avoid the C charge (just), get free parking and are coming/going at times of day when traffic isn’t a factor, so very much a case of the exception proving the rule.

Even then, most try and avoid it!

 

[datdad]

I intend to travel to Reading using my Freedom Pass in the next few days, but it will be to look at the splendid abbey ruins, not modern high rise buildings!

Yes do that the ruins are much improved. The other attraction for me is the victorian Bayeux Tapestry replica in the Reading Museum. It was stitched by a group of ladies in the midlands (Staffordshire from memory) & is a delight in its own gallery.
The ticket barriers (gate line?) at Reading station didn't take a Freedom pass when I used it & we need to ask the gateline staff to open up.

 

[Malaxa]

The ticket barriers (gate line?) at Reading station didn't take a Freedom pass when I used it & we need to ask the gateline staff to open up.

That's normal, also at Shenfield and Cheshunt where National Rail trains also call beyond Greater London in addition to EL services. Never a problem.

 

[Coolzac]

I think it's not fair that me and my family, and all the others in cars in front and behind, are caught up in a single lane jam while the very occasional bus, with hardly anybody in them (invariably the case here) drive past.

Just in case the argument is that it "encourages" public transport use, it doesn't; the buses here are notably emptier than they were a generation ago with no bus lanes.

I think that's it's unfair that private car drivers cause most of the congestion that bus users/cyclists get caught up in.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Can't see letter from Shapps above but DfT has given them another temporary extension see

https://assets.publishing.service.g...5296/letter-sos-mayor-of-london-june-2022.pdf

Theres a lot of pushing back to TfL being responsible for the issues particularly about bus route cuts but in summary

As you know, we do want to give TfL a longer-term capital deal. But your tactics are the wrong way to achieve one. They are harming London's interests. If we are to make a longer-term funding commitment, you must keep your promises and we must be able to deal with you and TfL on a basis of honesty and seriousness, not campaigns of scaremongering and threats. Your latest stunt today – where you have prematurely announced details of an extension before it was finalised with the department – is just the latest example of your desire to play politics, rather than working constructively with us. TfL's services are at no risk, unless you want them to be, and should not be undermined for political ends. As we have stated before, we will continue revenue support, in further temporary deals if necessary. We remain open to giving you a longer-term capital settlement. But it will require a reset of the relationship.

 

[Taunton]

That's normal [at Reading], also at Shenfield and Cheshunt where National Rail trains also call beyond Greater London in addition to EL services. Never a problem.

Surely Freedom Passes are not valid beyond West Drayton, no ?

 

[pelli]

Surely Freedom Passes are not valid beyond West Drayton, no ?

This seems to have been covered on page 4:

Free off peak train travel London to Reading for over 60s on TfL Rail.

Nope
60+ only good to West Drayton

Not according to TfL. Freedom Pass is Free to Reading.

A 60+ oyster is only valid to West Drayton

The elder persons Freedom Pass (the London ENCTS pensioners version, issued at state pension age) is indeed valid to Reading. The disabled Freedom Pass is also valid to Reading.

The 60+ Oyster card is only valid in London.

 

[JonathanH]

I note the comment 'Again, it is better to save money by reforming pensions than by cutting services.'

Whatever your view of pension provision, that could equally be read as 'it is better to spite your staff than passengers'.

 

[stuu]

Can't see letter from Shapps above but DfT has given them another temporary extension see

https://assets.publishing.service.g...5296/letter-sos-mayor-of-london-june-2022.pdf

Theres a lot of pushing back to TfL being responsible for the issues particularly about bus route cuts but in summary

Are public letters from Ministers of State usually that blunt?

 

[Wolfie]

Are public letters from Ministers of State usually that blunt?

When Labour are in power and write similarly to a Tory local authority watch the hypocrites whinge like hell.

 

[Taunton]

I think a number of the comments above show something of the problem here, that there are a significant number who just want to make a political issue out of what is a major transportation funding point. But there are those who would rather yaa-boo at politicians of the opposing colour to their own than do anything constructive.

Yes, the letter from the SofS is blunt, but it is also straightforward and does sound like someone exasperated at wanting to resolve things practically. That's not a one-sided political point, it is the facts of the matter.

If I was the SofS I would consider taking TfL back into full central government control. It consumes a great deal of public money, which needs to be spent properly.

 

[Wolfie]

I think a number of the comments above show something of the problem here, that there are a significant number who just want to make a political issue out of what is a major transportation funding point. But there are those who would rather yaa-boo at politicians of the opposing colour to their own than do anything constructive.

Yes, the letter from the SofS is blunt, but it is also straightforward and does sound like someone exasperated at wanting to resolve things practically. That's not a one-sided political point, it is the facts of the matter.

If I was the SofS I would consider taking TfL back into full central government control. It consumes a great deal of public money, which needs to be spent properly.

If you look at the current Government's record it is hard to make the statement in that last para with a straight face.

 

[leytongabriel]

I think a number of the comments above show something of the problem here, that there are a significant number who just want to make a political issue out of what is a major transportation funding point. But there are those who would rather yaa-boo at politicians of the opposing colour to their own than do anything constructive.

Yes, the letter from the SofS is blunt, but it is also straightforward and does sound like someone exasperated at wanting to resolve things practically. That's not a one-sided political point, it is the facts of the matter.

If I was the SofS I would consider taking TfL back into full central government control. It consumes a great deal of public money, which needs to be spent properly

Ah so given over to somebodys' mate / sister-in-law / ex-uni buddy who is 'highly suitable and experienced' but just hasn't ever run a transport undertaking before?​

 

[Wolfie]

Ah so given over to somebodys' mate / sister-in-law / ex-uni buddy who is 'highly suitable and experienced' but just hasn't ever run a transpoet undertaking before​

You might think that but.....

 

[Taunton]

Point proven.