Ashford to Reading

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TheJRB

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I was taking a looking at ticket prices (off peak day return) from Ashford to Reading and noticed that they remained unchanged going from a route via Redhill and the North Downs line to a route via London.

I consulted the Routeing Guide and it appears to suggest that the valid maps are CS (via Redhill - which also happens to be the shortest route), CW+RM+CS (via Portsmouth and Basingstoke) and of course the route LONDON.

Is it therefore correct that on an off peak day return ticket with route Any Permitted, one could travel, for example, outbound via Redhill and return via Waterloo or Paddington (and also HS1)?
 
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Ivo

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I am slightly surprised this is valid via the Coastway route, but it certainly appears to be. Thus, I see no reason why your deduction should be incorrect. There is no obligation to use the same route in both directions.

All I would say is to ensure that if you use the London option you know the routes valid between London and both Reading and Ashford. There is nothing to suggest the use of HS1 should be forbidden for the Southeastern leg.

Ashford to London: HS; LK; LK+SD+LB; LK+SL; LL; LR+SL
Reading to London: RG; WX

No less than 14 different options for travel between Reading and Ashford, of which 12 involve the London option.

HS: High Speed 1
LK: Myriad Kentish routes via Bromley South
SD: South Downs and Sutton area
LB: Bedford to Brighton
SL: London to Horsham via the Mole Valley
LR: Ashford to Victoria via Swanley
RG: London to Reading via Slough
WX: London to Reading via Staines
 
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TheJRB

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I am slightly surprised this is valid via the Coastway route, but it certainly appears to be. Thus, I see no reason why your deduction should be incorrect. There is no obligation to use the same route in both directions.

All I would say is to ensure that if you use the London option you know the routes valid between London and both Reading and Ashford. There is nothing to suggest the use of HS1 should be forbidden for the Southeastern leg.

Ashford to London: HS; LK; LK+SD+LB; LK+SL; LL; LR+SL
Reading to London: RG; WX

No less than 14 different options for travel between Reading and Ashford, of which 12 involve the London option.

HS: High Speed 1
LK: Myriad Kentish routes via Bromley South
SD: South Downs and Sutton area
LB: Bedford to Brighton
SL: London to Horsham via the Mole Valley
LR: Ashford to Victoria via Swanley
RG: London to Reading via Slough
WX: London to Reading via Staines
Thanks. That's a lot of choice!

I must say that I have no idea why the Coastway route is valid and it would surely take an incredibly long time.
 

bb21

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Is it therefore correct that on an off peak day return ticket with route Any Permitted, one could travel, for example, outbound via Redhill and return via Waterloo or Paddington (and also HS1)?
As Ivo has already confirmed, this is of course permitted.

You're free to use HS1 services as your ticket does not show any restriction.

However if you wish to travel one way avoiding London and the other way through London, it would be cheaper to purchase the Route Not Via London Off-Peak Day Return (£21.00) and request a Change of Route Excess for the portion travelling through London. This is calculated as half the difference between the two different routeing options. (Route +Any Permitted £31.60, Excess £5.30.) The total cost of the journey is therefore £26.30.
 
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ji459

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However if you wish to travel one way avoiding London and the other way through London, it would be cheaper to purchase the Route Not Via London Off-Peak Day Return (£21.00) and request a Change of Route Excess for the portion travelling through London. This is calculated as half the difference between the two different routeing options. (Route +Any Permitted £31.60, Excess £5.30.) The total cost of the journey is therefore £26.30.
Where did you find those fares? I can only find an off-peak day return for £36.70 and as TheJRB says, irrespective of whether via London or not.
 

bb21

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Where did you find those fares? I can only find an off-peak day return for £36.70 and as TheJRB says, irrespective of whether via London or not.
Hmm. Yes, very odd. I can't seem to find them now. :s

In that case, ignore what I said earlier. (Something very strange is going on here.)
 

ji459

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The cheapest off-peak day return I could find was this combination:

Ashford International to Horley £14.15 (Southern sale price, via not London - AFK to RDH is £21!)
Redhill to Reading £13.90
Total £28.05
 

bb21

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AFK to RDH is £21
Yes, indeed. It looks like I have been quoting RDH fares instead of RDG(!)

Well my excuse is that they were right next to each other on the keyboard. ;)

(Goes into secret hiding place.)
 

Urban Gateline

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Was the OP refering to Ashford international or Ashford surrey? That may also be one source of confusion! :lol: Although I see now that the OP is based in Ashford Kent...!
 

TheJRB

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Was the OP refering to Ashford international or Ashford surrey? That may also be one source of confusion! :lol: Although I see now that the OP is based in Ashford Kent...!
I am indeed in Ashford, Kent. So International would be the one. I completely forgot to put that detail in. :oops:

The cheapest off-peak day return I could find was this combination:

Ashford International to Horley £14.15 (Southern sale price, via not London - AFK to RDH is £21!)
Redhill to Reading £13.90
Total £28.05
Interesting. I take it there would be no obligation to complete the journey to Horley there.

Also remaining on topic (after all an Ashford to Reading Any Permitted ticket includes travel to London), is travelling from Ashford to London via Beckenham Junction to London Bridge (via the Southern route of Crystal Palace, East Dulwich and Queens Road Peckham) a valid route (both on an Ashford-Reading ticket or Ashford-London Terminals ticket)? It's just that the maps aren't particularly clear about this route.
 

Ivo

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No obligation to continue to Horley at all. It's simply a casing of stopping short.

As for the other question, it's not an easy one to tell as you say. From what I can tell, and don't take this as gospel because the station names don't match up perfectly, it is valid. The last option I listed above, Option 6 (LR+SL), allows you to travel from Ashford via Crystal Palace to "Streatham" on Map LR. However, Streatham itself is not on the route you would want; instead, West Norwood - which comes under Streatham for routeing purposes - is. From there you can get to London Bridge using Map SL which is simplistic. Thus, I would suggest that this is an acceptable route.

In the event I'm wrong, I offer my sincerest apologies - and you can guarantee that someone else will be along to correct me. I will be asking yorkie et al for clarification on this matter immediately.
 

John @ home

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I agree with Ivo that an Ashford Intl - London ticket is valid via Beckenham Jn, Crystal Palace, Gypsy Hill, Tulse Hill and Peckham Rye.

To demonstrate this validity we need to get immersed in the detail of the National Routeing Guide. Unfortunately this is currently very difficult because an attempted update by ATOC on 14 March 2012 has yet again corrupted the information available to the public. On that date, ATOC replaced the Easements file with a new version. At the same time, they replaced the Group Stations file with the same Easements file! This error remains nearly two weeks later.

In my calculations here, I assume that the previous Group Stations file dated 5 April 2011 remains in force. It is attached.

In that file, West Norwood is not a member of Streatham Group, so I have discarded Ivo's suggestion that map combination LR+SL gives validity.

My view is that map combination LK+SD+LB gives validity:
  • LK: Ashford Intl - Tonbridge - Sevenoaks - Bromley South Group - Beckenham Jn - Crystal Palace
  • SD: Crystal Palace - Gipsy Hill
  • LB: Gipsy Hill - Tulse Hill - Peckham Rye Group - London Bridge.
 

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Ivo

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In that file, West Norwood is not a member of Streatham Group, so I have discarded Ivo's suggestion that map combination LR+SL gives validity.
That's what you get for ignoring whether the station is explicitly mentioned as a member of Streatham Group or just that it comes under its Routeing Point (also known as "forgetting check that file and relying on the Pink Pages") :roll:
 
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