Asked to remove retro railway attire

[Journeyman]

There was a young guy in his late 20s I'd say who used to frequent the old Chester bus exchange (literally every day) wearing a current issue Stagecoach fleece, or an Arriva fleece.

He was a right nuisance acting as an inspector complete with clipboard, would often harass passengers and would try and tell drivers were to park, and if they left late would go over and tell them off/tell them they're late etc!

In the end I believe he got banned from the bus exchange. I don't go that way often so not sure if he still lurks around the new interchange.

I fully understand the issue with non employees wearing bus/rail uniform whether new or old issue around buses/trains.

Unfortunately this sort of thing is quite common, and it's an issue many public transport operators have to deal with regularly. Most people, especially those who don't travel very often, are not going to be experts on what is or is not current uniform, and Virgin is the brand name that refuses to go away, so I'm absolutely not surprised this got the reaction it did.

We've even had problems with unauthorised people pretending to be staff on the heritage railway I volunteer at, to the point where we recently had to revoke someone's membership and ban him from the site, following repeated warnings.

 

[Llanigraham]

As an aside, but about uniforms when a company is taken over.
When Railtrack became Network Rail, at one centre all the old Hi-vis was collected up by one of the managers and ended up being given to staff on the railway in Mongolia!

 

[Journeyman]

As an aside, but about uniforms when a company is taken over.
When Railtrack became Network Rail, at one centre all the old Hi-vis was collected up by one of the managers and ended up being given to staff on the railway in Mongolia!

I once saw someone wearing a Network Rail hi vis at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant...

 

[D6130]

I once saw someone wearing a Network Rail hi vis at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant...

Had it turned green by any chance?

 

[GodAtum]

I have one of these, don't think there's anything wrong with it

 

[faltskog36abba]

They buried him in that overcoat.

Well he must of been young as he was in his 30s in 2000. Thats if were talking about the same fella? Reddish hair.

 

[Ploughman]

Having worked on the railway through the privatisation fiasco and having worked for 7 firms from the same desk.
I accumulated an amount of Good serviceable HI Vis clothing.
Why should I dump near new Goretex Jackets, overalls and trousers when I can find further use for them on a Heritage line for further use when crawling about in the dark areas of a a tamper or out relaying track in mid February?

 

[Journeyman]

Having worked on the railway through the privatisation fiasco and having worked for 7 firms from the same desk.
I accumulated an amount of Good serviceable HI Vis clothing.
Why should I dump near new Goretex Jackets, overalls and trousers when I can find further use for them on a Heritage line for further use when crawling about in the dark areas of a a tamper or out relaying track in mid February?

There's nothing wrong with that, because you're unlikely to confuse or mislead anyone, or look like that's what you might be doing.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I accumulated an amount of Good serviceable HI Vis clothing.

Why should I dump near new Goretex Jackets, overalls and trousers when I can find further use for them on a Heritage line...

As @Journeyman has just pointed out, I would suggest that your circumstances are somewhat different from the OP who appears to have been parading around in uniform clothing on the operational platforms of a busy ECML station for no particularly good reason.

 

[Journeyman]

As @Journeyman has just pointed out, I would suggest that your circumstances are somewhat different from the OP who appears to have been parading around in uniform clothing on the operational platforms of a busy ECML station for no particularly good reason.

Yeah, I've used branded hi vis clothing on heritage lines myself, but there’s no way anyone is going to get confused or misled by that.

 

[tspaul26]

Ultimately - if Virgin Trains never sold these items legitimately, the OP does not have good title to them.

This is not strictly speaking true and title is not determinative for the purposes of the theft offence in any event (cf. Turner).

And if the age of the item is correct (over ten years, I believe was stated upthread) then it seems unlikely that LNER (as successor to Virgin Trains East Coast) has any title to it at all.

 

[philthetube]

My brother in law got a talking to at the ELR once for wearing a yellow high viz jacket. The staff told him it was “tantamount to a green signal”.

You should never see staff wearing yellow hi viz because of the perceived risk of it being mistaken for a green, be this a real risk or net.

 

[island]

Yes I agree the ownership is not the issue here.

The point is that someone is wearing a uniform or part of a uniform at a location where wearing that uniform may mislead or deceive members of the general public and possibly deceive or mislead staff also working at that location.

Whilst there may be no intent to mislead or deceive, the very wearing of that uniform may mislead or deceive.

Arguments about it being non current uniform or from an undertaking no longer operating are imho irrelevant. The fact is that wearing such items may mislead or deceive.

In my experience when uniforms have been donated to charity they have had all branding / titling removed so as to avoid this sort of issue arising.

All of this may be true, but nothing described is an offence or even a breach of the conditions of carriage.

 

[Davester50]

I have one of these, don't think there's anything wrong with it

For a fancy dress party maybe, but where else would you were a cheap BR blazer?
Bizarre.

 

[Ianigsy]

Many years ago I went to Crewe a few times in my uniform which is not a railway company brand by any measure, yet I'm often mistaken for railway staff.

Some uniforms do look very similar.

That’s funny - about 20 years ago I had a red and white striped short-sleeved shirt and was crossing platforms at Crewe when a man of about 65 asked me to carry his suitcase over the bridge. I thought nothing of helping somebody who was probably a visitor to this country, except a few minutes later it occurred to me that it didn’t look totally dissimilar to the shirts that Virgin staff had at the time.

Just for the record, I wouldn’t have passed a second glance - the red stripes were about twice as wide, the shirt was frayed cotton and I was certainly wearing jeans and probably trainers too!

 

[Elwyn]

The legality of owning or using a rail company uniform (valid or obsolete) is one thing. Folk may choose to argue about that till the end of time, but is it not just self evident to most reasonable people, that wandering about a railway station wearing a rail company uniform, when you aren’t a rail employee, is unhelpful to put it mildly? Might lead to confusion and all sorts of difficulties for the average passenger. Do we need to invoke any laws or company policies here? Is it not just common sense that it’s a daft thing to do?

 

[Western Sunset]

Is it not just common sense that it’s a daft thing to do?

I think that sums it all up very nicely. Just plain daft...

 

[1955LR]

Do the TOC's actually own the clothing or do they "lease" from one of the major suppliers . The workwear I had in the motor industry was leased & returned to the lease company. I suspect they sold it on themselves and a lot appeared at car boot sales etc sometime afterwards.

 

[LowLevel]

Do the TOC's actually own the clothing or do they "lease" from one of the major suppliers . The workwear I had in the motor industry was leased & returned to the lease company. I suspect they sold it on themselves and a lot appeared at car boot sales etc sometime afterwards.

They buy it, it's personal issue and it goes in the bin when you're done with it.

 

[Journeyman]

They buy it, it's personal issue and it goes in the bin when you're done with it.

Yes, it's meant to be accounted for and securely disposed of.

 

[the sniper]

I have one of these, don't think there's anything wrong with it

Just don't turn up at your local station in it come 2023, you'll look more 'GBR' than the staff who'll likely be wearing something like this:

 

[Journeyman]

Had it turned green by any chance?

Haha, no, but it was a strange thing to see in a place absolutely awash with strange things.

 

[LowLevel]

Yes, it's meant to be accounted for and securely disposed of.

We just get told to cut any logos out and dispose of things like shirts and trousers when they're worn out. They have an amnesty for things like hi vis vests at franchise change but I'm not aware that anyone really knows who has what.

 

[Titfield]

We just get told to cut any logos out and dispose of things like shirts and trousers when they're worn out. They have an amnesty for things like hi vis vests at franchise change but I'm not aware that anyone really knows who has what.

Whilst an employee may sign for issues of uniform, it is absolutely impossible to keep track of it post issue. There are a number of basic principles companies adhere to (for example replacement when worn out, if damaged due to carelessness then you may have to pay towards replacement) but the one most appropriate in this context is as Lowlevel says cut out any logos. Simples.

High Viz loses its reflectability (not sure thats the word) after so many washes / sunlight exposure so should be replaced as per manufacturer / operator instructions.

 

[eastdyke]

I am surprised that this thread still has legs!
Some 'previous' from a Police Community Forum.

Police Community

I figured this would be a good topic for discussion. During these weird times I've recieved updates from various organisations, some of which have been concerned with people impersonating key workers to help facilitate travel, now I have yet to encounter anyone yet impersonating a key worker duri...

police.community

A bit of background, I was called to a platform one night by station staff who had concerns for a man dressed in a network rail uniform sat on one of the benches, the concern was that he smelled of alcohol and atleast appeared to either be going to or just finishing his shift. I attended and sure enough there was a scruffy looking bloke sat on a bench, orange railway rucksack next to him wearing orange trousers and a network rail branded blue fleece. I spoke to him and sure enough could smell alcohol on his breath, he stated he was "going home" but became really evasive when I asked for his details and stated he couldn't produce his work identity card to me. Long story short it turned out he wasn't an employee of network rail at all - a little perplexed myself and my oppo made the decision to arrest the individual for suspicion of theft given he was in possession of network rail uniform clothing, we took him to custody and booked him in. When we searched his home it was something of an aladdins cave of railway uniform, old British Rail Cap badges, railway magazines... I'm talking proper silence of the lambs railway collection going on, the man REALLY liked his trains.


He wasn't a thief but he was an over enthusiastic train spotter who enjoyed dressing up in rail uniform which he had purchased online. The decision was taken to NFA the case but have him sign over his uniform to network rail for disposal which he agreed to do with some very strong words of guidance not to do it again.

I think the lesson is that if a 'uniform' comes to the attention of the right (or wrong?) person it could lead to further complication. Not suggesting for one minute that @EnlargedTrain2 is either scruffy or has anything whatsoever to hide but I for one prefer the peaceful life.

 

[Journeyman]

I am surprised that this thread still has legs!
Some 'previous' from a Police Community Forum.

Police Community

I figured this would be a good topic for discussion. During these weird times I've recieved updates from various organisations, some of which have been concerned with people impersonating key workers to help facilitate travel, now I have yet to encounter anyone yet impersonating a key worker duri...

police.community

I think the lesson is that if a 'uniform' comes to the attention of the right (or wrong?) person it could lead to further complication. Not suggesting for one minute that @EnlargedTrain2 is either scruffy or has anything whatsoever to hide but I for one prefer the peaceful life.

I used to be a Duty Station Manager for London Underground. One day one of our Station Assistants came to me to tell me he'd been approached by someone extremely persistent offering him a lot of money for items of uniform. The SA tried to shake him off but he got repeatedly pestered. Thinking on his feet, he agreed to meet the guy the next day, and we arranged to get the BTP to swoop in. Again, his house was found to be completely full of uniform. There was no evidence he was up to anything dodgy, but this was around the era of 9/11 and 7/7, so it's hardly surprising that LU and the police took this very seriously.

If you're anywhere near a station and you're deliberately wearing uniform that isn't yours, whether old or new, you're asking for trouble and I don't think you have much right to complain.

 

[matt_world2004]

Working at a bus stop once, there was a spotter hanging around. Took my fleece off and placed on roof on roadside railings. Little ******* nicked it

 

[bramling]

I'd disagree

If you take the view that it's fine for people to impersonate members of railway staff then where do you draw the line?

Rail staff are trusted professionals, performing safety critical roles in some circumstances - are people on here saying that they are comfortable with anyone walking off the street in a TOC-branded jacket so that vulnerable passengers will trust them? (Note - I'm not accusing the OP of anything here - I've bought a couple of items of public transport branded clothing in the past although I don't I've worn them outside of the house - I think that the OP has raised an interesting question - I'm just trying to take the argument to a conclusion and see whether people are comfortable with it)

Whilst I agree with the general view expressed here, it has to be borne in mind that someone can impersonate railway staff either deliberately or unwittingly, by wearing clothes akin to uniform. Someone with nefarious intent could easily stitch a logo onto something. I’m sure many on here will have had the experience of being mistaken for staff simply for wearing something which looks the part - this is quite common during disruption where anyone who merely has an air of officialdom about their look is liable to be pestered.

So I do think this is being very slightly over egged in some of the posts here. It’s undesirable for sure, but it really isn’t *that* big a deal. The lanyard and/or ID pass is what counts, not the clothing.

I reiterate something I said elsewhere - why anyone would *want* to look like railway staff, deliberately or unwittingly. It will mean being lynched during disruption, dirty looks during any delay, and pestering just at the time one doesn’t want it. Even the most keen of enthusiasts will very soon get fed up with this!

You should never see staff wearing yellow hi viz because of the perceived risk of it being mistaken for a green, be this a real risk or net.

I thought LU cleaners have a yellow hi-vi as part of their uniform?

 

[matt_world2004]

I thought LU cleaners have a yellow hi-vi as part of their uniform?

They do and I have worn yellow hi visibility jackets while working on the platform at Stratford

 

[Journeyman]

I reiterate something I said elsewhere - why anyone would *want* to look like railway staff, deliberately or unwittingly. It will mean being lynched during disruption, dirty looks during any delay, and pestering just at the time one doesn’t want it. Even the most keen of enthusiasts will very soon get fed up with this!

It appeals to some people on the autistic spectrum who desperately want to work on the railway, but can't because their autism prevents it. This has often occurred, and there's mention of it in this thread.