Asked to remove retro railway attire

[GB]

Yes they absolutely were within their rights.

I don't believe any railway employee has the right to confiscate any item of weared clothing or any other private property.

 

[43066]

I don't believe any railway employee has the right to confiscate any item of weared clothing or any other private property.

Probably not to confiscate something, I agree, but certainly to ask someone causing an issue to leave (and have the BTP remove them if necessary).

 

[Vespa]

I wonder how many uniforms makes its way to the railway fairs where memorabilia is sold and swapped, I've seen a few myself.

A lot of ex military and police uniforms do make its way on the collectors market and in military surplus shops, eBay and the likes.
It should be sold with a caveat that it should not be used to impersonate staffs.

If anyone approaches a guardhouse in military uniform, it doesn't matter if it's a Colonel or a Private, they all get asked for ID no matter what or who, the same standard should apply to railway staff, their ID should be viable on a lanyard, that way wannabes can get rumbled quite easily, the public should also be aware of that fact too.

 

[RPI]

There certainly would be grounds for confusion, as others have said, the virgin trains brand has stuck in peoples minds, they haven't operated trains in Devon since 2007 but people still refer to voyagers as "Virgin trains", but I think calling the police to get it confiscated is a little far fetched (unless of course it was the fashion police that attended)

 

[londonteacher]

but I think calling the police to get it confiscated is a little far fetched (unless of course it was the fashion police that attended)

It depends what the OP was doing whilst wearing it!

 

[Falcon1200]

There certainly would be grounds for confusion, as others have said, the virgin trains brand has stuck in peoples minds, they haven't operated trains in Devon since 2007 but people still refer to voyagers as "Virgin trains",

The general public are not always aware of the many changes in operator on the railways, not just involving TOCs either; My Network Rail office still received calls, 20 years after privatisation, from people asking if they were through to British Rail ! So wearing any branded uniform item, from no matter how long ago, is inviting problems.

 

[172007]

Only 2 years ago we had a dire shortage of uniform, we do now tbh, a colleague driver desperate for a rain jacket worked a number of shifts in a Central Trains coat. He said it was the closest alternative to the current uniform he had and didn't want to wreck their own clothes.

 

[lyndhurst25]

I don’t know why anyone would want to wear anything resembling a work uniform on the railway or anywhere else: it’s just not worth the hassle involved. I used to have a red logo-less short-sleeved polo shirt but stopped wearing it outdoors after various people in the street stopped me to ask for directions, about missing parcels, etc., thinking that I worked for Royal Mail!

 

[Titfield]

I don’t know why anyone would want to wear anything resembling a work uniform on the railway or anywhere else: it’s just not worth the hassle involved. I used to have a red logo-less short-sleeved polo shirt but stopped wearing it outdoors after various people in the street stopped me to ask for directions, about missing parcels, etc., thinking that I worked for Royal Mail!

Bizzarely I think there are some people who like to wear uniform or pseudo uniform because it encourages the public to interact with them and makes them feel important.

If you wear a suit in a supermarket then customers nearly always assume you are the manager and ask you questions!

Airlines and airports take the issue of uniforms and ID much more seriously. If you have ever worked at an airport and had to have the official airport issued ID you will know the process involved and the amount of paperwork involved.

 

[cakefiend]

LNER's current uniform is identical to VTEC's uniform, the only difference being change of logo.

The logo on the overcoat/raincoat is very small as it is, and easily covered by the hood. If it's actually a blazer/suit jacket being worn, there's no visible difference whatsoever.

If OP was wearing one of the above, then they're being very economical with the truth indeed.

 

[matt_world2004]

It depends what the OP was doing whilst wearing it!

If someone was just going home on the next train wearing a vt uniform they are unlikely to have been stopped let's be honest. Spending a considerable amount of time on the platform would have probably meant they would have been stopped

 

[Turtle]

That’s funny - about 20 years ago I had a red and white striped short-sleeved shirt and was crossing platforms at Crewe when a man of about 65 asked me to carry his suitcase over the bridge. I thought nothing of helping somebody who was probably a visitor to this country, except a few minutes later it occurred to me that it didn’t look totally dissimilar to the shirts that Virgin staff had at the time.

Just for the record, I wouldn’t have passed a second glance - the red stripes were about twice as wide, the shirt was frayed cotton and I was certainly wearing jeans and probably trainers too!

Did you get a tip?

 

[greyman42]

The staff member could not confiscate the jacket. That would be classed as theft.

So why threaten to do so?

 

[Journeyman]

So why threaten to do so?

Possibly just being a bit overzealous, but we don't know everything about the situation.

 

[greyman42]

Possibly just being a bit overzealous, but we don't know everything about the situation.

Don't staff have any training regarding what they can and cannot do? Being a bit overzealous can land you in a spot of bother.

 

[Iskra]

Just for the record, I wouldn’t have passed a second glance - the red stripes were about twice as wide, the shirt was frayed cotton and I was certainly wearing jeans and probably trainers too!

It’s not that daft, in many other countries railstaff don’t wear formal attire. It’s not abnormal in countries like Italy, France or Ukraine to see non-customer facing staff wearing trainers and jeans while on duty.

...although customer facing roles in those countries do seem to involve very smart uniforms.

Also, I don’t wear anything resembling uniform while on the network but often get asked for railway information- the Great British public are easily confused.

 

[Master29]

This is not strictly speaking true and title is not determinative for the purposes of the theft offence in any event (cf. Turner).

And if the age of the item is correct (over ten years, I believe was stated upthread) then it seems unlikely that LNER (as successor to Virgin Trains East Coast) has any title to it at all.

Virgin Trains East coast is definitely NOT 10 years old as it started in 2015 and ended only a couple of years ago.

It appeals to some people on the autistic spectrum who desperately want to work on the railway, but can't because their autism prevents it. This has often occurred, and there's mention of it in this thread.

I agree with this. I am myself autistic and would love to work on the railways even voluntarily but would never stoop to something like this. autism and a love of railways does seem to go hand in hand.

 

[Journeyman]

I agree with this. I am myself autistic and would love to work on the railways even voluntarily but would never stoop to something like this. autism and a love of railways does seem to go hand in hand.

It's a classic special interest for autistic people, as it very much is in my case.

 

[EssexGonzo]

If you wear a suit in a supermarket then customers nearly always assume you are the manager and ask you questions!

I once wore a dark blue suit, white shirt and red tie to a very large Tesco. I can vouch for this big time. Half way through the shop I took my tie off. It was very irritating.

 

[MotCO]

I once wore a dark blue suit, white shirt and red tie to a very large Tesco. I can vouch for this big time. Half way through the shop I took my tie off. It was very irritating.

Did you get staff discount?

 

[bramling]

I once wore a dark blue suit, white shirt and red tie to a very large Tesco. I can vouch for this big time. Half way through the shop I took my tie off. It was very irritating.

I don’t mind people who ask “do you work here?”, however the ones who launch straight in with unpleasantness really get my back up. In a railway setting AFAIAC the latter types are fair game to be sent on a magical mystery tour, perhaps teaching them a bit of life experience.

 

[EssexGonzo]

Did you get staff discount?

My disguise wasn’t that good.

 

[Western Sunset]

I don’t mind people who ask “do you work here?”, however the ones who launch straight in with unpleasantness really get my back up. In a railway setting AFAIAC the latter types are fair game to be sent on a magical mystery tour, perhaps teaching them a bit of life experience.

There are lots of clips on YouTube of people remonstrating with "staff", saying they'll get them fired for their poor customer service when the hapless "victim" doesn't even work there.

 

[tspaul26]

Virgin Trains East coast is definitely NOT 10 years old as it started in 2015 and ended only a couple of years ago.

Let’s review the information provided:

I was at doncaster station just today, wearing a (very) old Virgin Trains jacket.

The item in question is both (at least) 10 years old and no longer in use.

The TOC it belongs to ceased trading 18 months ago

So, we have:

• a “Virgin Trains” jacket
• described as “very old”
• at least 10 years old
• for a TOC that ceased to operate 18 months ago

Since Virgin Trains East Coast ceased operations three years ago, this leads us to the inexorable conclusion that the item of clothing is from Virgin Trains [West Coast] and, as such, nothing to do with LNER.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Let’s review the information provided:
Since Virgin Trains East Coast ceased operations three years ago, this leads us to the inexorable conclusion that the item of clothing is from Virgin Trains [West Coast] and, as such, nothing to do with LNER.

They had a common (give or take ) uniform though.

 

[tspaul26]

They had a common (give or take ) uniform though.

Not prior to 2017: press release regarding introduction of new uniform

But in the contact of whether the purported confiscation of the item in question by an employee of LNER could or could not constitute theft, there is no common title in any event.

 

[yorkie]

Indeed, the staff were clearly wrong to threaten confiscation.

 

[Tallguy]

There are lots of clips on YouTube of people remonstrating with "staff", saying they'll get them fired for their poor customer service when the hapless "victim" doesn't even work there.

I used to wear a yellow, white and blue brightly coloured Helly Hansen coat many years ago. I remember standing on the platform at Harrow On The Hill LUL station waiting for a train home when a guy came up to me and started asking me questions about how to get a certain train. Despite me explaing that I didn’t work for LUL he just wasn’t listening and kept asking the same questions. Eventually I got quite short with him and he got the message, finally…..but I can see how wearing old uniform could lead to confusion.

 

[pitdiver]

I have a bright red Gill sailing jacket with reflective stripes on it. I have has people in my village asking where their post is as it looks very similar to Royal Mail wet weather gear.

 

[IanXC]

There probably is an argument that the staff member's statement was accurate, the Railway Byelaws state:

2. Potentially dangerous items
1. except with written permission from an operator or an authorised person, no person shall bring with him or allow to remain on the railway any item which, in the opinion of an authorised person, may threaten, annoy, soil or damage any person or any property
2. if any person in charge of an item contrary to Byelaw 2(1) is asked by an authorised person to remove it and fails to do so immediately, it may be removed by or under the direction of an authorised person.

Now the title including the word 'dangerous' perhaps has had some readers skip over this section, however:

25. 2. Introduction, table of contents and headings
The introduction, table of contents and headings used in these byelaws are for assistance only and are not to be considered as part of these byelaws for the purpose of interpretation.

So we can disregard the word 'dangerous'.

It is then not that far of a jump to say that an authorised person had the opinion that said item (the Virgin Trains coat) may annoy any person (by causing confusion), and that as they had asked the OP to removed it and should the OP have failed to do so immediately that it may be removed by or under the direction of an authorised person (although the fate of said item isn't mentioned, confiscation does not seem to be an unreasonable choice of words for these actions).

In the OP it isn't exactly clear what language the 'dispatcher' used however I think its reasonable to suggest their statement went up to and including 'we' (the railway) and that this terminology would include the BTP, who in any case would in all probability have been called upon should the OP not have followed the instruction to remove the coat.

Railway byelaws

www.gov.uk