ASLEF - LNER drivers to strike every Sat & Sun for 3 months from 31 Aug - Now called off

[GalaxyDog]

P&O used no loopholes, what they did was entirely legal. The circumstances aren't the same as the British Gas workers.


This isn't actually correct. Times, Mail, Telegraph and Express have all made it clear that the disputes aren't related.


It really is. To both points... It's quite clear that either through deliberate action or cock up ASLEF have done exactly what you're claiming that no-one does.

The issue may be entirely valid (and no-one on here is claiming it isn't), the optics are terrible.

Makes a change then re the rw media if they've actually considered and published the nuances of the issue. Happy to stand corrected, cheers.

 

[DJP78]

P&O used no loopholes, what they did was entirely legal. The circumstances aren't the same as the British Gas workers.


This isn't actually correct. Times, Mail, Telegraph and Express have all made it clear that the disputes aren't related.


It really is. To both points... It's quite clear that either through deliberate action or cock up ASLEF have done exactly what you're claiming that no-one does.

The issue may be entirely valid (and no-one on here is claiming it isn't), the optics are terrible.

P&O acted illegally.

At an extraordinary Commons hearing, when pressed on the issue of using Fire & Rehire, P&O’s Chief Executive Peter Hebblewaite said, “I know what the law is. I broke it on purpose. And I would do it again”.

Quite an extraordinary response.

These practices are abhorrent, appalling and are a complete abuse of the legislation.

Labour are planning to outlaw this Conservative introduced legislation. The sooner the better.

As for being different to the British Gas debacle, I see very little difference. Ultimately, two unscrupulous and cynical employers destroying their employees T’s & C’s and ruining people’s lives in the name of chasing profits. All these businesses, Tesco, British Gas, P&O are enormous multi £Billion behemoths and had no dire need to resort to these despicable acts.

 

[Banham7]

Should be up tomorrow, all being well.

An email has been sent out to affected customers saying that journey planners will be updated tomorrow.

 

[Carlisle]

P&O acted illegally.

As for being different to the British Gas debacle, I see very little difference.

I understand there was no re hire offered in the P&O scheme so quite different

 

[dk1]

"scab"... etc etc .

Better known as Sausage Chips And Beans in these PC days

 

[Falcon1200]

Or, as the Managers during the Railtrack Signallers strike of 1994 were, quite wittily I thought, called by the Glasgow Central Signallers, the 'Signalling Centre Advisory Bureau'....

 

[yorksrob]

P&O acted illegally.

At an extraordinary Commons hearing, when pressed on the issue of using Fire & Rehire, P&O’s Chief Executive Peter Hebblewaite said, “I know what the law is. I broke it on purpose. And I would do it again”.

Quite an extraordinary response.

These practices are abhorrent, appalling and are a complete abuse of the legislation.

Labour are planning to outlaw this Conservative introduced legislation. The sooner the better.

As for being different to the British Gas debacle, I see very little difference. Ultimately, two unscrupulous and cynical employers destroying their employees T’s & C’s and ruining people’s lives in the name of chasing profits. All these businesses, Tesco, British Gas, P&O are enormous multi £Billion behemoths and had no dire need to resort to these despicable acts.

He's clearly not a fit and proper person to manage a business and should be disbarred.

 

[AngusH]

P&O acted illegally.

At an extraordinary Commons hearing, when pressed on the issue of using Fire & Rehire, P&O’s Chief Executive Peter Hebblewaite said, “I know what the law is. I broke it on purpose. And I would do it again”.

I was somewhat skeptical of such a quote by a person in his position and went looking to confirm it.
I can't find where he used those exact words. Is there a good source on it?

The best I can find is this quote from the guardian, but it is a recollection of the hearing by an MP.

Darren Jones, the Labour MP who chaired the extraordinary Commons hearing of the business and transport committees, vividly remembers Hebblethwaite’s “albeit honest, but remarkable answer” to their questions: “He said, I know what the law is. I broke it on purpose. And I would do it again. Which essentially is saying to parliament, what are you going to do about it?

One year on, has P&O Ferries got away with illegally sacking all its crew?

Despite outrage at the time, no staff have been reinstated, no law reforms initiated, and no sanctions started against directors or owners

www.theguardian.com

But it isn't recorded in the official transcript as such and I think the MP has offered a judgement rather than a quote

https://committees.parliament.uk/oralevidence/9989/html/

Though for the record: I don't believe the P&O actions were morally correct

 

[DJP78]

I was somewhat skeptical of such a quote by a person in his position and went looking to confirm it.
I can't find where he used those exact words. Is there a good source on it?

The best I can find is this quote from the guardian, but it is a recollection of the hearing by an MP.

One year on, has P&O Ferries got away with illegally sacking all its crew?

Despite outrage at the time, no staff have been reinstated, no law reforms initiated, and no sanctions started against directors or owners

www.theguardian.com

But it isn't recorded in the official transcript as such and I think the MP has offered a judgement rather than a quote

https://committees.parliament.uk/oralevidence/9989/html/

Though for the record: I don't believe the P&O actions were morally correct

Doesn’t look like a judgement to me. Sounds like a quotation.

I’d assume Hebblethwaite would have claimed defamation if this was inaccurate??

 

[Bald Rick]

Amended timetables for the first strike weekend now published.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Amended timetables for the first strike weekend now published.

Can't see them on the LNER website - although there's a long list of cancellations for today - anyone know why?

 

[dk1]

Can't see them on the LNER website - although there's a long list of cancellations for today - anyone know why?

They’ve lost the good will of their most important employees.

 

[jmh59]

The LNER website now says "Saturday 31 August and Sunday 1 September (timetable is confirmed and open for bookings, changes and refunds)" - not looked at the times as we're not due to travel until the 15th (typical, I changed our National Express tickets to later in the year as I wanted to go to London by train and we need to be there on the 15th or we waste a day of the hotel)

For the next week it shows "Saturday 7 and Sunday 8 September (tickets for these dates are temporarily off sale)" - presumably they are figuring out what drivers they will have and when?

 

[800001]

Can't see them on the LNER website - although there's a long list of cancellations for today - anyone know why?

It clearly states the cancellations are due to lack of train crew.

 

[JamesT]

Doesn’t look like a judgement to me. Sounds like a quotation.

I’d assume Hebblethwaite would have claimed defamation if this was inaccurate??

If he said it in Parliament, then it’s covered by Parliamentary Privilege and he can’t sue.

 

[800001]

The LNER website now says "Saturday 31 August and Sunday 1 September (timetable is confirmed and open for bookings, changes and refunds)" - not looked at the times as we're not due to travel until the 15th (typical, I changed our National Express tickets to later in the year as I wanted to go to London by train and we need to be there on the 15th or we waste a day of the hotel)

For the next week it shows "Saturday 7 and Sunday 8 September (tickets for these dates are temporarily off sale)" - presumably they are figuring out what drivers they will have and when?

correct, will be waiting for the driver managers availability.

 

[norbitonflyer]

The LNER website now says "Saturday 31 August and Sunday 1 September (timetable is confirmed and open for bookings, changes and refunds)" - not looked at the times as we're not due to travel until the 15th

Yes, you can book - but no actual timetable has been published on the website - not even a list of which trains are running.

 

[Jan Mayen]

They’ve lost the good will of their most important employees.

Who has upset the First Class lounge hosts now?

 

[dk1]

Who has upset the First Class lounge hosts now?

Sorry, I should’ve said second most important employees

 

[Starmill]

P&O acted illegally.

At an extraordinary Commons hearing, when pressed on the issue of using Fire & Rehire, P&O’s Chief Executive Peter Hebblewaite said, “I know what the law is. I broke it on purpose. And I would do it again”.

Quite an extraordinary response.

These practices are abhorrent, appalling and are a complete abuse of the legislation.

Labour are planning to outlaw this Conservative introduced legislation. The sooner the better.

As for being different to the British Gas debacle, I see very little difference. Ultimately, two unscrupulous and cynical employers destroying their employees T’s & C’s and ruining people’s lives in the name of chasing profits. All these businesses, Tesco, British Gas, P&O are enormous multi £Billion behemoths and had no dire need to resort to these despicable acts.

It was an unconscionable failure by the Government and Parliament that the Employment Rights Act (and others) were allowed to be so undermined. What's the point of an inalieable right in statute if it's in practice easy to contract out? It reduces protection for wrongful or unfair dismissal to being any old right of contract. However I fear we're getting away from the subject at hand here.

Doesn’t look like a judgement to me. Sounds like a quotation.

I’d assume Hebblethwaite would have claimed defamation if this was inaccurate??

I guess it could depend on whether Parliamentary Privelage applies to what Jones said.

 

[ainsworth74]

Seems like a slightly more comprehensive service than previous ASLEF strikes?

Looking at via York on both days the last northbound (as far as Newcastle) is the 1930, I could have sworn you were looking at pre-1800 on previous strike days? Sunday the last train to Edinburgh is 1730 (again later than previous I think?), but Saturday its 1500 for the last train to Edinburgh though more trains overall with twelve northbound on Saturday versus seven on Sunday. It's obviously still a significant reduction on what's supposed to run but feels better than previous strikes? Or maybe my memory is just playing tricks!

 

[Moonshot]

Seems like a slightly more comprehensive service than previous ASLEF strikes?

Looking at via York on both days the last northbound (as far as Newcastle) is the 1930, I could have sworn you were looking at pre-1800 on previous strike days? Sunday the last train to Edinburgh is 1730 (again later than previous I think?), but Saturday its 1500 for the last train to Edinburgh though more trains overall with twelve northbound on Saturday versus seven on Sunday. It's obviously still a significant reduction on what's supposed to run but feels better than previous strikes? Or maybe my memory is just playing tricks!

How many do they run on a normal day?

 

[greyman42]

Are there any plans to have talks to avert this strike? If the Conservatives were still in power they would be getting slaughtered for not getting round the table to sort it out.

 

[TreacleMiller]

I am a little surprised how quickly some other forum members have been critical of your post.

No one should be doing that.

 

[weeklycommuter]

Seems like a slightly more comprehensive service than previous ASLEF strikes?

Looking at via York on both days the last northbound (as far as Newcastle) is the 1930, I could have sworn you were looking at pre-1800 on previous strike days? Sunday the last train to Edinburgh is 1730 (again later than previous I think?), but Saturday its 1500 for the last train to Edinburgh though more trains overall with twelve northbound on Saturday versus seven on Sunday. It's obviously still a significant reduction on what's supposed to run but feels better than previous strikes? Or maybe my memory is just playing tricks!

How many do they run on a normal day?

This is the published timetable and LNER services showing to and from London Kings Cross on Saturday 31 August on Real Time Trains. Looks like the strike timetables are around 20 percent of the services in the normal timetable but just core services with no extensions.

https://www.lner.co.uk/globalassets/lner_june_december_2024_timetable_guide_web.pdf

Realtime Trains | Departures from London Kings Cross all day on 31/08/2024

Train information at London Kings Cross all day on 31/08/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[londonbridge]

Sunderland away at Portsmouth on 31st. Only option to have any chance of making Kings X for 19:30 is the 17:23 Fratton-Waterloo. Any delays and you’ll have a couple of hundred fans stranded in London.

 

[Kite159]

Sunderland away at Portsmouth on 31st. Only option to have any chance of making Kings X for 19:30 is the 17:23 Fratton-Waterloo. Any delays and you’ll have a couple of hundred fans stranded in London.

How many of those fans will simply switch to using a football coach put on by Sunderland for a direct route towards Portsmouth without the worries of using the trains (even if it takes longer)?

 

[dk1]

How many of those fans will simply switch to using a football coach put on by Sunderland for a direct route towards Portsmouth without the worries of using the trains (even if it takes longer)?

Will only be temporary I’d imagine. Who would want to suffer that without reason even if it was cheaper?

 

[mpthomson]

P&O acted illegally.

At an extraordinary Commons hearing, when pressed on the issue of using Fire & Rehire, P&O’s Chief Executive Peter Hebblewaite said, “I know what the law is. I broke it on purpose. And I would do it again”.

Quite an extraordinary response.

These practices are abhorrent, appalling and are a complete abuse of the legislation.

Labour are planning to outlaw this Conservative introduced legislation. The sooner the better.

As for being different to the British Gas debacle, I see very little difference. Ultimately, two unscrupulous and cynical employers destroying their employees T’s & C’s and ruining people’s lives in the name of chasing profits. All these businesses, Tesco, British Gas, P&O are enormous multi £Billion behemoths and had no dire need to resort to these despicable acts.

They really didn't, I'm sorry. The workers that P&O fired weren't employed under UK employment legislation. If they had been then it would have broken the law but they weren't, which is why the government were powerless to do anything about it.

Labour can introduce what they like, it would make absolutely no difference to a case like the P&O workers.

 

[woodmally1979]

Are there any plans to have talks to avert this strike? If the Conservatives were still in power they would be getting slaughtered for not getting round the table to sort it out.

Yes precisely this. There should be pressure on Louise Hague to get involved. She got involved and sorted the pay dispute quick enough. Isnt it operated by the government anyway or is that different to a company of last resort?

Disagree. Picket lines are bullying. If all the members felt that striking was the right thing to do, then they would not go to work and there would be no need for an picket line to intimidate any not to cross.

Exactly they are meant to put pressure on workers crossing the picket line. Otherwise what would be the point of them they could simply strike and spend time at home watching Homes under the Hammer. The not working puts pressure on management and the picket line pressure on those crossing it.