At what arrival poont is delay repay triggered when a train is arriving late?

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infobleep

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Is delay repay based on the time you pass the monitoring point or time the train doors opened?

I was on a return ticket that cost £10.

I put a claim in for 30 minutes but was only paid the 15-29 minute rate. I was paid £1.30 and not £2.50. The train passed the monitoring point at 29 minutes but then we pulled into the platform 30 minutes after I should have arrived. I took some video to prove it.

The difference is only £1.20 so probably not worth the hassle of fighting but I wondered what the general policy is.

Some stations aren't even monitoring points. How do they deal with those?
 
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Kilopylae

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I would be surprised if passengers were expected to be familiar with the meaning and exact locations of monitoring points. From a passenger perspective, the journey ends on arrival at the destination station, i.e. when the customer doors open.
 

infobleep

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I would be surprised if passengers were expected to be familiar with the meaning and exact locations of monitoring points. From a passenger perspective, the journey ends on arrival at the destination station, i.e. when the customer doors open.
I would be inclined to agree with you but the system says no.

The Southern branded Web Site doesn't even say at which rate the compensation was paid. I just worked it out.
 

_toommm_

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I’ve successfully argued this before. In my case, my TPE train arrived according to the Train Described 28 late. However, the train had to couple up to one infront which they did before letting us off, so we actually stepped off the train 31 late.

It was initially done as a 15-29 delay, but after raising the point, they agreed and paid the extra comp.
 

Watershed

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The time that the doors are released is what matters - obviously in most cases this will be sufficiently close to the time shown in the system that it makes no difference. But if you have been 'under compensated', do appeal.
 

mikeg

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Agree with @Watershed , it should be the time the doors open at the final destination, certainly the case for air travel that this is the case,though the compensation scheme for that varies significantly to that of the railway, it's considered the actual arrival time.
 

Llanigraham

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Agree with @Watershed , it should be the time the doors open at the final destination, certainly the case for air travel that this is the case,though the compensation scheme for that varies significantly to that of the railway, it's considered the actual arrival time.

How is the "system" going to know that when at the moment the times are taken off the berth circuit?
If you want it differently it will either have to be entered manually or the whole system will need redesigning.
 

Watershed

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How is the "system" going to know that when at the moment the times are taken off the berth circuit?
If you want it differently it will either have to be entered manually or the whole system will need redesigning.
Or... You could simply make better use of the GPS and other data that already exists within the industry, which would solve the problem in almost all circumstances.
 

Llanigraham

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Or... You could simply make better use of the GPS and other data that already exists within the industry, which would solve the problem in almost all circumstances.

GPS is not used in signalling, and to be honest this looks just like another case of someone trying to find a solution to a problem that really isn't there.
 

mikeg

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The system doesn't know in the case of airlines, but we digress. I'm just going on what has been successfully argued in court according to the MSE website.
 

Bertie the bus

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Or... You could simply make better use of the GPS and other data that already exists within the industry, which would solve the problem in almost all circumstances.
It should be a source of shame within the rail industry that 90%+ of passengers have a device worth a few hundred pounds in their pocket which can tell them precisely where they are but the railway still uses the same technology to locate trains as they have done for decades. Not long before the Blackpool line resignalling I was waiting at Preston for a Blackpool South – Colne service which was showing as on time despite the departure time having passed. When I asked where the service was and why did the PIS show it as on time when it wasn’t I was told the it was showing as on time because it hadn’t passed any timing points yet and the system had no idea where the train was until it reached Kirkham!
 

MotCO

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Isn't the answer that the TOC should add 1 or 2 minutes to the monitoring point time to allow for the train to berth and for the doors to open?
 

yorkie

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This problem is endemic throughout the rail industry.

For a low value ticket I won't bother putting in a claim. I have argued my case for higher value tickets, but it's rarely worth my time.
Isn't the answer that the TOC should add 1 or 2 minutes to the monitoring point time to allow for the train to berth and for the doors to open?
They should, but many TOCs are not keen to pay customers the appropriate compensation as this would cost them money. Furthermore, by frustrating people they could put people off claiming altogether as they make claiming not worthwhile.
 

Dr Hoo

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Isn't the answer that the TOC should add 1 or 2 minutes to the monitoring point time to allow for the train to berth and for the doors to open?
(As has been explained many times before, in essentially similar threads) there is a 'berthing offset' applied from the 'last signal to clear' that matches normal expected running time into the relevant platform. The offsets are quite sophisticated and can allow for short bays, low speed pointwork and so on and these details are established and agreed in things called Margin Books.

There can still be issues where there is something non-standard such as an extra attachment, guard discovers that they have misplaced their panel key, train gets gapped or whatever.
 

Fawkes Cat

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There can still be issues where there is something non-standard such as an extra attachment, guard discovers that they have misplaced their panel key, train gets gapped or whatever
How rare are non-standard events? As in, would it be practical to require train crew to report this sort of thing so that the Delay Repay system could be adjusted for the train in question?
 

MotCO

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How rare are non-standard events? As in, would it be practical to require train crew to report this sort of thing so that the Delay Repay system could be adjusted for the train in question?

Or just add a minute to all timings to allow for these sort of events?
 

Fawkes Cat

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Or just add a minute to all timings to allow for these sort of events?
But per @Dr Hoo 's post, this has (essentially) already been done. And I suppose a legitimate question that we haven't yet asked is how many DR claims get wrongly knocked back because of this problem - if (either in absolute numbers or as a percentage) it's a tiny number then maybe the right answer is to live with it.
 
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MotCO

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But per @Dr Hoo 's post, this has (essentially) already been done. And I suppose a legitimate question that we haven't yet asked is how many DR claims get wrongly knocked back because of this problem - if (either in absolute numbers or as a percentage) it's a tiny number then maybe the right answer is to live with it.

The berthing delay has already been added - I'm thinking of adding another minute for exceptional events, like the lost guard's key etc. Maybe I should have said "just add a further minute to all timings to allow for these sort of events?" I doubt that in the overall scheme of things that many claims fall either side of the 29/30 minute or 59/60 minute threshold, so adding a further minute to the timings would not cost the TOCs too much, yet would remove the hassle and inconvenience of those few claimants who are affected.
 

infobleep

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The berthing delay has already been added - I'm thinking of adding another minute for exceptional events, like the lost guard's key etc. Maybe I should have said "just add a further minute to all timings to allow for these sort of events?" I doubt that in the overall scheme of things that many claims fall either side of the 29/30 minute or 59/60 minute threshold, so adding a further minute to the timings would not cost the TOCs too much, yet would remove the hassle and inconvenience of those few claimants who are affected.
In this case, the train was pulling into the platform as the time had changed so can't blame the onboard service person.

It wasn't the case of it changing just as it stopped. It was still coming in.

If a 2-minute allowance is already made then surely my claim should have gone over as it was 29 minutes late according to the online system but maybe that isn't the monitoring point time but the station time and the train went slower into the station than on average.
 
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