AT300 journey time improvements

[TheWalrus]

Its a speed limit based on the infrastructure, doesn't mean it can be achieved or has to be attained.

How difficult would it be to raise line speeds west of Newbury? How much could be done without real changes? As in just saying the track is cleared for faster running.

 

[The Planner]

No idea as I'm not an asset engineer or manager! It isn't as simple as just raising it, the whole shebang needs looking at, geotechnics, track, structures, signalling, maintenance, business case etc etc...

 

[AM9]

I don't think anyone's seriously suggesting that! (And in any case it wouldn't make much difference as noted above). Something more suitable than a 150 would be nice for the PNZ-PLY/EXD services though.

I was there last week and thought that the 150s were OK, just a little short of capacity. Almost every end-to-end local train was virtually full from Truro to Liskeard. 3 or 4 cars would seem to be more appropriate in the summer. Thje 150/2 was running flat out between St Austell and Truro.
Conversely, the HST, both going down to Cornwall and returning to London certainly wasn't going anywhere near as fast as that.
Given the curvature limitations on speed, would there be a case for running something tilting from Exeter westwards, possibly even from Paddington. Full tilt over 50-60mph curves could give worthwhile end-to-end time reductions.

 

[Woody]

The slight journey time improvements the AT300 will bring between Paddington and Devon and Cornwall are very minor compared to those that the ongoing program of major road improvements are bringing the SW. Work has started on dualling the remaining 3 mile single carriageway section of the A30 on Bodmin Moor from Temple to Higher Carblake. This will dual the last section of single carriageway on the A30 between the M5 at Exeter and the Carland Cross junction with the A39 north of Truro. A further scheme to dual the single carriageway section of A30 beyond from Carland Cross to Chiverton Cross (Camborne bypass) in 2019/20 will see the A30 dualled to within 15 miles of Penzance. The government has also announced a major Muilti £billion program of improvements to the A303 corridor via Stonehenge from the M5 to the M3. Even now Bodmin is displayed at Exeter as being only 60 miles/60 minutes drive down the A30. It still takes that long just to get to Plymouth from Exeter by rail with Bodmin Parkway a full I hour 40 minutes from Exeter by rail!
Back in Devon the South Devon Link Road a 5.5km dual carriageway currently under construction bypassing the existing congested A380 between Newton Abbot and Torbay is scheduled to be complete by December 2015. This will drastically improve accessibility to Torbay at rails expense no doubt giving quick and easy access to the M5 at Exeter.
As for Plymouth well even now its only a 50 minute drive up the dual A38/M5 to Tiverton Parkway station (I have timed it personally), that's about 25 minutes quicker than the fastest trains from Plymouth to Tiverton Parkway (75 minutes). Throw in the door to door convenience of a car and even more time can be saved.
Against all this a poultry 6 minute reduction from Paddington to Plymouth and 14 minutes all the way to Penzance is pretty poor really. The problem is that government continues to pour vast sums of money into major improvements to the SW trunk road network while expecting the railways particularly west of Exeter to compete on Victorian infrastructure by simply propping up the sea wall at Dawlish and re signalling it. That is simply not being realistic in the 21st century. The government also subsidises 3 return flights a day between Gatwick and Newquay and has also indicated it would offer similar help to a re-opened Plymouth airport.
Say no more.

 

[al.currie93]

The slight journey time improvements the AT300 will bring between Paddington and Devon and Cornwall are very minor compared to those that the ongoing program of major road improvements are bringing the SW. Work has started on dualling the remaining 3 mile single carriageway section of the A30 on Bodmin Moor from Temple to Higher Carblake. This will dual the last section of single carriageway on the A30 between the M5 at Exeter and the Carland Cross junction with the A39 north of Truro. A further scheme to dual the single carriageway section of A30 beyond from Carland Cross to Chiverton Cross (Camborne bypass) in 2019/20 will see the A30 dualled to within 15 miles of Penzance. The government has also announced a major Muilti £billion program of improvements to the A303 corridor via Stonehenge from the M5 to the M3. Even now Bodmin is displayed at Exeter as being only 60 miles/60 minutes drive down the A30. It still takes that long just to get to Plymouth from Exeter by rail with Bodmin Parkway a full I hour 40 minutes from Exeter by rail!
Back in Devon the South Devon Link Road a 5.5km dual carriageway currently under construction bypassing the existing congested A380 between Newton Abbot and Torbay is scheduled to be complete by December 2015. This will drastically improve accessibility to Torbay at rails expense no doubt giving quick and easy access to the M5 at Exeter.
As for Plymouth well even now its only a 50 minute drive up the dual A38/M5 to Tiverton Parkway station (I have timed it personally), that's about 25 minutes quicker than the fastest trains from Plymouth to Tiverton Parkway (75 minutes). Throw in the door to door convenience of a car and even more time can be saved.
Against all this a poultry 6 minute reduction from Paddington to Plymouth and 14 minutes all the way to Penzance is pretty poor really. The problem is that government continues to pour vast sums of money into major improvements to the SW trunk road network while expecting the railways particularly west of Exeter to compete on Victorian infrastructure by simply propping up the sea wall at Dawlish and re signalling it. That is simply not being realistic in the 21st century. The government also subsidises 3 return flights a day between Gatwick and Newquay and has also indicated it would offer similar help to a re-opened Plymouth airport.
Say no more.

These are all good points - maybe the money spent on the new trains would be better put to infrastructure replacement. Although I acknowledge that infrastructure replacement and modernisation would probably be a lot more expensive, it seems like HSTs on upgraded infrastructure would provide more benefits than AT300s on the existing. If that is the case, then these new trains really seem like nothing more than a gimmick to try and keep people quiet...

 

[Woody]

These are all good points - maybe the money spent on the new trains would be better put to infrastructure replacement. Although I acknowledge that infrastructure replacement and modernisation would probably be a lot more expensive, it seems like HSTs on upgraded infrastructure would provide more benefits than AT300s on the existing. If that is the case, then these new trains really seem like nothing more than a gimmick to try and keep people quiet...

A combination of geography and the financial consequences of "Brunels abortive atmospheric Caper" have unfortunately left a legacy west of Exeter of a slow, indirect and heavily graded rail route with sustainable line speeds limited to around 60mph to Penzance. Any journey time improvements have only been made possible by the higher power to weight ratio of HST's (10.77hp per ton) and now Voyagers (15hp per ton) and their ability to accelerate to those relatively low line speeds. That all. By way of comparison the AT300 bi-mode only has 11.33hp per ton when diesel powered, little different from a HST really. The AT300s will run into the same historical rail infrastructure "brick wall" west of Exeter as HST's and Voyagers do now, that's why they too will be limited to at best shaving off just a few minutes from existing schedules by a combination of SDO, changes to station stopping patterns and removal of some padding no doubt when Great Western electrification is finally complete.
Only very expensive rail infrastructure improvements as were going to happen back in 1939 can now make any real difference west of Exeter but that certainly isn't going happen for the foreseeable future is it given Network Rails financial woes. Indeed Devon and Cornwall could well end up stuck with essentially the same 19th century main line rail infrastructure not just through the 21st century but on into the 22nd century the ways things are going and I think the government well knows this, hence the overwhelming emphasis in the SW now on improvements to road and air links.