Attention Uckfield Line passengers (again...)

[tsr]

Well, unfortunately it's not been a good couple of months for Southern's Uckfield Line service. Tomorrow seems to see the CET contents really hitting the fan - there will be a number of morning peak services cancelled (at this stage), including the 0705 Uckfield-London Bridge. Additionally, the 0630 from Uckfield will be 6 vice 10 coaches, and the 0731 from Uckfield will be 4 vice 6. You can guess the rest! A cosy run-up to Christmas.

For anyone curious about yesterday's incidents... there was a traction defect on the 1638 off London Bridge, a unit with multiple defects terminating at Edenbridge Town on the 1708 from London Bridge (causing passengers to be left behind from the following 2 coach Oxted-Uckfield shuttle), and to cap it all, an injured deer obstructed the line between Crowborough and Buxted for several hours late in the evening.

 

[yorksrob]

Perhaps they ought to hire the thumper to cover some peak turns.

 

[RichJF]

The East Grinstead line was up the creek this morning too. Multiple short forms & early cancellations at Hurst Green.
The 07:33 to Victoria was 6 vs 12 coaches (very cosy & lots of tempers fraying onboard) & the 08:17 4 vs 8 coaches.

Combined with the fact Uckfield line passengers were trying to board already short trains it was not pretty.

The reliability of both Oxted lines has decreased dramatically in the last few weeks.

 

[berneyarms]

Multiple cancellations today ex-Uckfield so far:
07:05 as predicted, then 07:31, 10:34 and 11:34.

The 08:01 didn't leave until 08:25 meaning an almost two hour gap. I suspect that there were a lot of unhappy people!

 

[tsr]

The stock for the 0731 from Uckfield failed at Crowborough on the way down, with severe late running and multiple defects, including a power generation fault.

The irony is that the first 3 Up services actually ran extremely well today - however, that’s no consolation for those who didn’t have any service later in the peak!

 

[tsr]

1208 & 1308 London Bridge - Uckfield cancelled now
(and this also cancels the 1334 & 1434 from Uckfield)

 

[Bishopstone]

As of 12.23, the Service Update grid on the Southern website is showing 'Good Service' for the Oxted lines....

 

[RichardKing]

These 171 failures are so unbelievably common now. A few Mondays ago, 171 diagrams between Eastbourne and Brighton were all replaced with 377s (and even the odd 313!). I know those on the Uckfield line have it worse as their alternative options are much more limited, but it's beyond a joke now.

I've heard suggestions of depot staff shortages, which really doesn't surprise me. Also, there are problems with the company that supplies the parts for these units. Not sure how true either of these are, if anyone could confirm?

Come the 2018 timetable, the 171s required on the Coast will lessen as they will only be running between Ashford and Hastings, with 377s taking over up to Brighton (and vice versa), so there should be more spare units for the Uckfield line.

 

[infobleep]

As of 12.23, the Service Update grid on the Southern website is showing 'Good Service' for the Oxted lines....

How bad does it need to be for it to. Be classed as service with delays or problems?

 

[Starmill]

1208 & 1308 London Bridge - Uckfield cancelled now
(and this also cancels the 1334 & 1434 from Uckfield)

Did someone order some replacement buses at least?

 

[tsr]

1608 / 1908 Ldn Bridge - Uckfield & return are now cancelled (same stock diagram) due to short formed ECS out of Selhurst Depot.

1508 / 1806 from Ldn Bridge are 6 vice 10 coaches.

1538 from Ldn Bridge is delayed and lengthened to 4 vice 2.

Did someone order some replacement buses at least?

Not sure about the 1208 / 1308 (I suspect Control used the standby buses they had been planning to have in place as early as yesterday afternoon) but there were certainly a number of buses on the route this morning.

 

[tsr]

1853 Victoria - East Grinstead presently planned to be 6 vice 12 coaches of 377 stock... all dropping like flies.

 

[rebmcr]

If it's stock shortage, maybe they should run Uckfield-Croydon shuttles, rather than spend precious diesel unit mileage running all the way through to London Bridge.

 

[RichardKing]

If it's stock shortage, maybe they should run Uckfield-Croydon shuttles, rather than spend precious diesel unit mileage running all the way through to London Bridge.

Wouldn't platform capacity at Croydon (especially during the peaks) play havoc with this?
If there weren't short forms on the East Grinstead line tonight, these services would offer a good alternative to get passengers as far as Oxted, where a frequent shuttle service could operate from there to Uckfield.

 

[edwin_m]

an injured deer obstructed the line

Perhaps they ought to hire the thumper to cover some peak turns.

Is that a subliminal Disney joke?

 

[tsr]

Is that a subliminal Disney joke?

No, but

 

[387star]

These 171 failures are so unbelievably common now. A few Mondays ago, 171 diagrams between Eastbourne and Brighton were all replaced with 377s (and even the odd 313!). I know those on the Uckfield line have it worse as their alternative options are much more limited, but it's beyond a joke now.

I've heard suggestions of depot staff shortages, which really doesn't surprise me. Also, there are problems with the company that supplies the parts for these units. Not sure how true either of these are, if anyone could confirm?

Come the 2018 timetable, the 171s required on the Coast will lessen as they will only be running between Ashford and Hastings, with 377s taking over up to Brighton (and vice versa), so there should be more spare units for the Uckfield line.

thanks for this I wasn't aware this had been finalized that will be a lot better and I doubt the changeover at Hastings is too problematic

Southeastern taking the Ashford to Hastings?

 

[tsr]

One of the two-car 171s has now failed on the Marshlink. Ooops.

Wouldn't platform capacity at Croydon (especially during the peaks) play havoc with this?
If there weren't short forms on the East Grinstead line tonight, these services would offer a good alternative to get passengers as far as Oxted, where a frequent shuttle service could operate from there to Uckfield.

East Croydon would have to either tip out the trains and send them to Norwood Turnback Siding (a.k.a. the Perturbation Siding), or the trains would end up sitting there in (probably) Platform 5. Neither of these is ideal with some quite tight pathing in the peaks. The northbound paths from the Uckfield line through East Croydon station platforms during the evening peak actually work quite well most of the time - it's further north and south that can see the most problems - but there's still not much flexibility.

As for Oxted, the required shunt manoeuvres and the maximum length of train (max. 4 coaches of 171 stock, with 3 coaches of door release via conductor panel Door Deselect) in Oxted Platform 3 tend to scupper a more frequent service there. As could be seen at about 1830 tonight, even one ECS shunt for the stock for one shuttle per hour can either get held up in, or cause, congestion.

In an ideal world, it might be worth extending Oxted Platform 3 so that (say) 6 coaches of 171 stock could fit behind the starter signal, with (perhaps) a four or five coach door release. There is some largely disused space between the buffer stops and the platform office, which itself could be downsized slightly and relocated to occupy the space taken up by the little green prefab hut near the Platform 2 Off indicator, if need be. There might need to be embankment modifications but I couldn't be sure on the extent to which that might be needed. A greater amount of curvature on Platform 3, towards the lineside, could add a few metres of precious length, too - there is certainly space to do that, and it would not interfere significantly with dispatch.

To make use of this, you would also need to perhaps modify the crossover layout. It would be lovely to have proper bidirectional working through the Oxted area, or even just a crossover to allow trains from the Up East Grinstead to enter Oxted Platform 3. Probably a massive cost involved, though - we shall see if that ever occurs!

 

[IKB]

I think this sort of disruption only reinforces the case for a (relatively) cheap 3rd rail infill scheme to Uckfield. Many of the issues are recounted at length in the Gibb report so won't dwell too long here. But essentially managing such a small micro fleet is too troublesome. Set swaps and last minute substitutions are not possible. Not to mention to the inconvenience of stabling, refuelling etc etc.

 

[RichardKing]

thanks for this I wasn't aware this had been finalized that will be a lot better and I doubt the changeover at Hastings is too problematic

Southeastern taking the Ashford to Hastings?

No worries. There will only be a need for 4 2 car 171s down there after this change; 2 for the normal off-peak service and a further 2 for the peak-time Rye shuttles (if they continue with this in its current form).

Eventually, I think Southeastern will take over. I'm not sure if anything official has been said about this though (maybe in the Gibb report?).

 

[RichardKing]

One of the two-car 171s has now failed on the Marshlink. Ooops.

East Croydon would have to either tip out the trains and send them to Norwood Turnback Siding (a.k.a. the Perturbation Siding), or the trains would end up sitting there in (probably) Platform 5. Neither of these is ideal with some quite tight pathing in the peaks. The northbound paths from the Uckfield line through East Croydon station platforms during the evening peak actually work quite well most of the time - it's further north and south that can see the most problems - but there's still not much flexibility.

That'll probably be put on the Eastbourne-Selhurst diagram later tonight.

The terminating service that comes off of East Grinstead of an evening has a reasonably short dwell time at East Croydon before going ECS to Selhurst. If they could de-train and relieve the crew (if necessary) as quick as that, I suppose it could work, although I doubt they'll manage to get everything done that swiftly every time!

 

[Chrisgr31]

The service on the Uckfield Line has been truly terrible recently, with units regularly failing, terminations at Crowborough, and short forms here there and everywhere.

As we all know the platforms were lengthened to take 10 car trains last year, and in July last year 10 coach trains were introduced on the 6.30, 7.05 and 7.30 am departures from Uckfield, and the 15:08, 16:08, 17:08; 18:06 and 19:08 departures from London Bridge with other services lengthened. I am not sure they actually ever managed to run all those services at the correct length, and the 7:30 service is now schedules as a 6, and I have no idea what the evening ones are scheduled are (other than the 18:06 which is meant to be 10).

There is regularly confusion between the Southern website, and the Twitter team as to how long the trains are, or are meant to be. The evening shuttles formed from the 15:38 and 16:38 London Bridge departures are regularly cancelled.

This evening the Twitter team and the display board above the gateline said the 17:08 was going to depart 29 minutes late and terminate at Crowborough, it actually departed on time and ran to Uckfield. At Crowborough there was a railway replacement bus parked up.

In spite of the regular cancellations no one has told the passengers what is happening, why the units keep failing or indeed what is being done about it. I understand that a communication is being prepared but it is a bit late.

There is a noticeable reduction in the passengers on the line and I suspect it will just decrease further until there is a sustained recovery in the service. None of this bodes well for the timetable change next December and the half hourly evening peak service from London Bridge.

Ah well lets see what tomorrow brings.

 

[yorksrob]

Is that a subliminal Disney joke?

Genuine suggestion. However if people choose to see a pun within, they're welcome !

 

[physics34]

.........

 

[Chrisgr31]

Rumours I have heard have suggested a number of reasons for continual faults: -

• Supplier of parts going out of business
• Fitters having been poached by Siemens r the Class 700s at Three Bridges where they are paid more
• Fitters being grumpy as they no longer specialise in diesel or electric
• Specialised fitters having had enough and left

Problem is of course no one knows what is being one about the problems.

 

[sarahj]

Yesterday was fun and games with the new software updates on the 377's. How many times on a Hove shuttle can the train say 'this is a Southern service to Hove' before you go mad, and how fixing it can make the doors 'difficult' to open.

 

[RichJF]

Yesterday was fun and games with the new software updates on the 377's. How many times on a Hove shuttle can the train say 'this is a Southern service to Hove' before you go mad, and how fixing it can make the doors 'difficult' to open.

On the East Grinstead line it repeated every announcement four times then cut off then repeatedly kept playing the bing bong sound than the system turned off. This was on both journeys!

 

[RichJF]

Train has apparently hit a cow at Woldingham!

 

[Bishopstone]

I see the evening peak has descended into another shambles on the Uckfield line, with several cancellations and much late running.

 

[Kettledrum]

The really annoying thing about all this, is that every time proposals are put forward on this line about extra tracks or electrification and the argument made that this would aid resilience, the resilience argument all counts for nothing in a so called business case.

All the disruption and lack of resilience has a cost.