ATW Compensation Query

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Ivo

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Relating to this thread, you will notice that my train from Abergavenny had a five-minute delay. This delay slowly increased as we headed further south, until finally we reached Newport nine minutes late - by which time my connecting train to Bristol had already been (due in 1839; due out 1844, so it matches NWP's +5 requirement). Given I was travelling to Keynsham, I would not arrive until one hour later as a result - and, as thigns turned out, we hit Keynsham one minute late anyway (and before you ask, that one minute does matter because it takes the delay to over an hour).

Who should I apply to for Delay Repay? The delay was caused by ATW (or something on their route anyway) but I can see them fobbing it onto FGW because (a) the ATW service was only nine minutes late on arrival at NWP and (b) it was the FGW service that ultimately got me to Keynsham so much later than I should have. Normally I wouldn't bother given I'd only be likely to get £4 or so out of it, but that could (almost) cover a day trip to Severn Beach! (Not to mention it was another example of one of those days on which everything went wrong, so I want something out of it :roll:)

To summarise, I feel I should apply to ATW, but do the rest of you agree?

EDIT: Looking at the compensation form they gave me at AGV yesterday, it says "attach your validated ticket here". That's all very well, but what if the ticket isn't validated? Does it get thrown out immediately? I would not be happy if I was refused on these grounds <(
 
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calc7

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ATW, as the delay was caused by their service running late.

Virgin's compensation forms have the same wording but staff always say that no such validation is required.
 

MarkyMarkD

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It's interesting, as in this case the total delay went over an hour only because of the late running of FGW's train.

So, logically, FGW should bear the cost of part of the compensation under Delay Repay.

I presume that this isn't what happens because it would be too much hassle, and clearly almost all of the delay is down to ATW.
 

bb21

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It's interesting, as in this case the total delay went over an hour only because of the late running of FGW's train.

So, logically, FGW should bear the cost of part of the compensation under Delay Repay.

I presume that this isn't what happens because it would be too much hassle, and clearly almost all of the delay is down to ATW.
No. The only thing to be considered is who caused the initial delay. As it was ATW, which subsequently meant that the OP missed his booked connection at Newport, they will be the one footing the bill eventually.

The only thing I am unsure about is whether ATW participate in the Delay Repay scheme. Unfortunately the version of Passenger Charter on their website was supposedly valid until September 2011, and there was no mention of the Delay Repay scheme in there.

Furthermore under Delay Repay the requirement for 100% compensation of the price of a single ticket is 60 minutes or more, not more than 60 minutes, so a delay of exactly one hour will be eligible.
 

yorkie

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If you claimed for FGW they'd probably chuckle at a claim for 1 minute delay on their train, and would pass it on to ATW.

In general for these situations, the above advice by Calc7 and bb21 is correct (as documented here many times before!)

There may be some exceptional situations where you may be able to claim from a company other than that which caused the initial delay, but this certainly isn't one of them.
 

transportphoto

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The only thing I am unsure about is whether ATW participate in the Delay Repay scheme. Unfortunately the version of Passenger Charter on their website was supposedly valid until September 2011, and there was no mention of the Delay Repay scheme in there.
I've had a delay repay RTV with compensation (full cost of a return ticket rather half the cost of the return) for a 1hr+ delay on ATW between Shrewsbury and Birmingham. It was slightly a tongue in cheek request in that case because we had only paid c. £5 for two people return due to LM's rail sale IIRC.

That was last year some time :smile:

TP
 

Ivo

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This is all as expected. The only thing that concerned me was that they may have said that they were responsible for a delay of less than 10 minutes, which is obviously not the case - only on that one specific train.

For the record, this is what I can find on the ATW site (indicating that the 61st minute does matter):

We will as a minimum provide compensation for you, to the value of 20% in National Rail travel vouchers for holders of single tickets and 10% if you hold a return ticket if your journey on Arriva Trains Wales is delayed by a period of 30 minutes to one hour. You will receive compensation of 100% for holders of single tickets and 50% in the case of a return ticket if your journey on Arriva TrainsWales is delayed by more than one hour.

Compensation will be in National Rail travel vouchers. If you are delayed for more than two hours we will consider increasing the level of compensation. For holders of weekly season tickets the value for compensation will be the value of that day’s return travel and will be treated as a return ticket.
I have to say, their 20/10 split for delays of 30 to 60 is stingy - is that not the absolute minimum set out in the NRCoC? Most (if not all) other TOCs are more generous than that, typically offering 50/25 from what I've seen elsewhere!
 

bb21

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This is all as expected. The only thing that concerned me was that they may have said that they were responsible for a delay of less than 10 minutes, which is obviously not the case - only on that one specific train.

For the record, this is what I can find on the ATW site (indicating that the 61st minute does matter):

I have to say, their 20/10 split for delays of 30 to 60 is stingy - is that not the absolute minimum set out in the NRCoC? Most (if not all) other TOCs are more generous than that, typically offering 50/25 from what I've seen elsewhere!
Yes, the additional minute does matter in this case it seems, and it is clearly not Delay Repay.
 

Flamingo

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ATW will have to pay out, as the accumulative delay started with them.

As regards "validating" the ticket, that is a bit ambiguous, it might mean getting the ticket endorsed to say you were late, or just that the ticket was stamped or marked on-train to show that it was used. (If in doubt, just put an anonymous squiggle with a blue pen on it - bit I never told you to do that!). I would doubt it means the former, or would be enforceable - I've had trains with 400 people on them late, and I certainly didn't stamp every ticket as I walked through handing out compo claim forms!
 

AlterEgo

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Guidance in the industry means that you must claim from the TOC who caused the initial delay. Previous posters are correct in suggesting this. ATW should get back to you, realistically, within two weeks with the vouchers.
 

Welshman

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Just to echo what others have said - my recent experience of a TPE being 20 minutes late into Manchester Piccadilly, causing me to just miss my ATW to North Wales and having to wait an hour for the next resulted in TPE compensating me for a full hour's delay when I applied to them.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I've had trains with 400 people on them late, and I certainly didn't stamp every ticket as I walked through handing out compo claim forms!
I'm interested to read that you took the initiative with the claim forms. May I ask if you were going the extra mile to provide good service, or is it a company rule?

The reason I ask is I've been on trains which have been late enough to trigger compensation, but there's been no mention of such by any official on the train. It was down to me to collect a form from the booking-office or download it from the website, and I wondered how many other passengers on that train would know about this or go to the trouble.
 

Flamingo

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It depends on several factors, the main one is actually having 400 claim forms on board. Sometimes we do, sometimes we don't. We don't have an obligation to carry them on-board, and there is no set storage place fo them, but on some HST's you can find them lurking in cupboards or odd corners of the bike van.
 

aformeruser

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They don't need to give anything for less than an hour - Northern Rail don't.
It depends on the passengers charter. Northern give compensation for 60 minutes delay or more, including missed connections, other operators are more generous. NRCoC defines the minimum level of compensation but AFIAK all operators pay out above that level - Merseyrail used to pay out at the minimum level but that got revised when they improved the passengers charter.
 

Welshman

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It depends on several factors, the main one is actually having 400 claim forms on board. Sometimes we do, sometimes we don't. We don't have an obligation to carry them on-board, and there is no set storage place fo them, but on some HST's you can find them lurking in cupboards or odd corners of the bike van.
Thank you.

So if they're not readily available on board, would you announce to passeners informing them from where they would be obtainable?

Sorry to persist, but I suppose my real question is regarding the policy towards compensation. Is it like the issue of split-ticketting - ie we won't volunteer to tell you the cheaper splits but we'll sell those tickets if you ask?
In other words, do companies encourage the making-known of their compensation arrangements or do they simply regard including it in their charter to be sufficient?

I realise some TOCs may differ from others, or that you may not wish to/feel free to answer.
 

Greenback

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Thank you.

So if they're not readily available on board, would you announce to passeners informing them from where they would be obtainable?

Sorry to persist, but I suppose my real question is regarding the policy towards compensation. Is it like the issue of split-ticketting - ie we won't volunteer to tell you the cheaper splits but we'll sell those tickets if you ask?
In other words, do companies encourage the making-known of their compensation arrangements or do they simply regard including it in their charter to be sufficient?

I realise some TOCs may differ from others, or that you may not wish to/feel free to answer.
On a hevily delayed FGW journey, there certianly was more than one announcement apologising for the lack of compensation forms and advising where they could be obtained.

And just a small point about split tickets - most of the time the booking office clerk won;t know what the cheapest split is, just like the forum fares experts will not definitively announe the cheapest splits! There are such a huge variety of possibilities that it is impractical to operate in any other way than by only selling what is requested.
 

Lrd

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When there are delays on Southern or London Midland, then the guys and gals manning the twitter feeds will proactively encourage people to claim and provide links to the online forms.
 
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