ATW - Crewe-Manchester Piccadilly

[Welshman]

According to ATW Journey-Check, services between Cardiff and Manchester are not making their intended additional calls at Alderley Edge, Holmes Chapel and Sandbach [in lieu of Northern services hit by the current dispute] because of "ongoing operational challenges" and "short-notice extenuating circumstances"

Does anyone know what these are?

 

[Bletchleyite]

On Sunday several diagrams were operated using Class 150s, a capacity/loss of time issue?

 

[87015]

Deemed strikebusting by union.

 

[PHILIPE]

On Sunday several diagrams were operated using Class 150s, a capacity/loss of time issue?

There are some booked on Sundays. Caused by pattern of services and putting 175s at the right place at the right time.

 

[Welshman]

Deemed strikebusting by union.

Thank you.
Actually, I wondered about that, as ATW's Chester-Manchester services are not calling at Patricroft this time.

 

[PHILIPE]

When Southern strikes were in their early stages, GWR were stopping their Brighton services additionally at some Coastway stations but the practice ceased after a time.

 

[185143]

Deemed strikebusting by union.

Good. It is.

Bad enough that they run any trains at all really.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Good. It is.

Bad enough that they run any trains at all really.

What out of interest is the legality of that situation?

 

[daikilo]

What out of interest is the legality of that situation?

ATW Franchise does not include those stops. Control could presumably issue short-notice stop orders which the traincrew would then have to abide by.

I tend to agree that if Arriva asked their ATW crews to stop in lieu of their Northern crews things could get nasty, but I guess they understood it would not be a good idea.

 

[Starmill]

It has already been done on quite a number of occasions.

 

[jfollows]

It has already been done on quite a number of occasions.

Indeed.

Today we seem to have the worst of both worlds, the trains are running to public timetables which allow time for them to stop at Sandbach, Holmes Chapel and Alderley Edge, but they don't stop, and therefore arrive 9 minutes early into Wilmslow and have to sit waiting for the revised public departure time.

See http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P70625/2017/10/03/advanced currently sitting in Wilmslow platform 3.

Still, the poor timekeeping of these services benefits from the extra running time to make the performance figures look better than normal.

 

[pemma]

Ignore. On checking legislation what I posted here wasn't correct.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why can they not strike break using a train, given that they can using buses?

 

[trickyvegas]

Why can they not strike break using a train, given that they can using buses?

By using non-unionised bus drivers?

 

[pemma]

Bad enough that they run any trains at all really.

How dare they let people get to where they need to be for work, medical appointments, job centre appointments etc. :roll:

You wouldn't like in some EU countries where certain rail services are classed as essential and a full service has to be provided by law even during industrial action.

 

[Starmill]

Some services appear to have been put in with turnarounds as short as 1 minute at Manchester Piccadilly, rather than the usual 15 minutes. I'm quite glad that they're running their normal timetable.

 

[pemma]

By using non-unionised bus drivers?

Union members don't have to reveal to their employers that they are union members.

It looks like I was wrong before. The law only prevents agency workers taking the role of permanent employees during industrial action, so the likes of G4S, STM etc. can't provide 'emergency guards' but managers or employees of another TOC can be emergency guards.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2003/3319/regulation/7/made

 

[Welshman]

According to ATW Journey-Check, services between Cardiff and Manchester are not making their intended additional calls at Alderley Edge, Holmes Chapel and Sandbach [in lieu of Northern services hit by the current dispute] because of "ongoing operational challenges" and "short-notice extenuating circumstances"

Just out of interest, the Northern website is acknowledging that although ATW did not make these calls yesterday, they will tomorrow, 5th October.

Has a special arrangement been reached, or are they just hoping?

www.northernrailway.co.uk/news/travel-alerts/1501-strike-service-update

 

[PHILIPE]

ATW Twitter in replying to a Tweeter says will be calling tomorrow

 

[jfollows]

ATW Twitter in replying to a Tweeter says will be calling tomorrow

See attached for comparison with yesterday

 

[craigybagel]

Deemed strikebusting by union.

Absolutely nothing to do with the union. If ATW aren't going to go public on the reasoning then I won't either but rest assured that staff are professional and if they're ordered to make additional stops then they will do so.

 

[Starmill]

I notice the 2 minute turnaround for the 1923 Manchester Piccadilly to Carmarthen is back for tomorrow. Surely that's wrong?

 

[craigybagel]

I notice the 2 minute turnaround for the 1923 Manchester Piccadilly to Carmarthen is back for tomorrow. Surely that's wrong?

I don't have the diagrams to hand but I believe that is only the public timetable, on the working timetable it will be booked to arrive earlier, at 19:15.

 

[Starmill]

I see that may solve that problem.

However, what about people who have booked Advance tickets for the 1930 to stations west of Cardiff Central? If it leaves at 1923 many of them may miss it... and that is not good at that time of night!

 

[pemma]

I see that may solve that problem.

However, what about people who have booked Advance tickets for the 1930 to stations west of Cardiff Central? If it leaves at 1923 many of them may miss it... and that is not good at that time of night!

Indeed. Especially if people are connecting from other services e.g. if they are getting in to Manchester on the 19:16 arrival from York. I imagine if the York arrival is on time most people will make the connection but it's not an official connection with the earlier Cardiff departure.

 

[Starmill]

I notice that the 2030 is departing later at 2039 though, and this arrives at Cardiff Central at 0017. I wonder if anyone who has missed their connection would be put in a taxi to their destination at that point, or asked to wait for the 0117 GW service to Swansea (and then potentially to take another taxi from there if the GW train doesn't stop at their station).

 

[cactustwirly]

Good. It is.

Bad enough that they run any trains at all really.

What's wrong with that? It's not the passengers fault that a millitant and uncompromising union decides to strike.
After all the railway is an essential service for some people, so IMO the Union should make sure minimum service is provided on the main routes, like in some other European countries.