ATW/Keolis Amey Wales stock shortages

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by ATW158Xpress, 25 Jun 2018.

  1. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

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    Our old friend " a shortage of train crew" has reared its head on the Cambrian/West Midlands leg again.
    Negative headline in yesterdays Shropshire Star with some fairly cutting comments aimed at TfW/Welsh Government.

    https://www.shropshirestar.com/news...cellations-and-crowded-carriages-cause-chaos/
    We had similar verbal comments here at Newtown yesterday - suffice to say any goodwill toward TfW (for not being ATW and new) has long since evaporated on the ground. I'm sure its not the start they wanted or thought was going to happen but nonetheless it has.
     
  2. Llanigraham

    Llanigraham On Moderation

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    Funny how that article concentrates on the TFW service, but the short formed WMT service following only gets a little mention.
    I wonder why?
     
  3. anthony263

    anthony263 Established Member

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    With northern withdrawing their loco hauled sets on the cumbrian coast if we cant get any pacers from northern perhaps using the loco hauled sets to free up some more dmus might now be one option considered by tfw/wg because something is goung to have to give
     
  4. PHILIPE

    PHILIPE Established Member

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    LHCS are expensive with hire and track access charges. Would involve lots of traction training,especially that after 13 years many of those trained would have moved on and who would want them after their performance on the Cumbrian Coast with their breaking down.
     
  5. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

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    Fairly standard practice for off peak WMzr trains to leave a unit in Platform 6 in Shrewsbury. The 2 x 2 car 170 peak trains running as 1 x 2 car in the middle of day. So to Joe Punter he thinks it's short formed whereas in reality its its normal length which normally copes ok with the loadings on offer.
     
  6. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

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    Gerald is out of action with at least one MK3 needing a leaking roof fixed.
     
  7. Neen Sollars

    Neen Sollars Member

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    In the late 80`s on cusp of DMU and replacement by 150 Sprinters commuter service Stourbridge to New Street was awful, old DMUs kept breaking down, or perhaps it was new sprinters (?). Loads of cancellations leading to sardine conditions when a train arrived. One day we had a LHCS train on the service, IIRC it had two or three of TSOs and a gangway brake coach and another similar meaning there was lots of standing room available in large caged sections of the coach. We were happy as Larry because we had transport home. Things were so bad a workmate and I attempted to gain access to the managers office on New Street, we breached a couple of security checks but failed to get past his PA. A formidable woman who made sure we were shown the door out. We did however manage to hand over a letter of complaint begging for more LCHS trains as previously outlined. I did get a response along the lines of, we have the locomotives and some old carriage stock that we can use, but the DMU drivers are not trained to drive the diesel locomotives and we have no spare diesel locomotive drivers available. So the misery continued for a few months.
     
  8. anamyd

    anamyd Member

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    Seeing as this used to be the PRM thread, 158-840 is the 8th modified 158. Spotted today at Carmarthen on the 1759 Fishguard Harbour. This means a third of the 158s are now done.
     
    Last edited: 4 Jan 2019
  9. Cardiff123

    Cardiff123 Member

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    So this is what happens when you replace what should be a 4 car 150 service, with a 2 car Pacer.
    https://twitter.com/Jessybonbessy/status/1082333631371243520

    What is going on?
    Has 150285 entered service yet? Are 150s being taken away for mods regardless of whether there's anything to replace them?

    Passengers pointing out on twitter that TfW twitter were saying in November that more trains were coming 'in early 2019', now TfW twitter are saying the 769s are arriving in May (which is then pointed out is half way through the year) and have dropped 'early 2019' (presumably due to Northern not releasing Pacers now as expected)

    If this will be the norm now until at least May then the supplementary peak time buses for the lower Valleys should be reinstated and made permanent until May or possibly for the entire year as the crunch to meet 1/1/2020 gets worse.
     
    Last edited: 7 Jan 2019
  10. krus_aragon

    krus_aragon Established Member

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    Do the tweets specify the 769s, or just "more trains"?

    May 2019 in service was the target for the Class 230s since July. I think the ever-slipping delivery date* of the Class 769s has passed that of the 230s, and caused the change in tweeted dates.

    *They were originally due to be accepted by Arriva, of course!
     
  11. tomos dafis

    tomos dafis Member

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    Is there just one Mk 3 rake available for the Gerald loco-hauled service then - no backup?
     
  12. 158820

    158820 Member

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    Gerald is running without its RFM which is the coach with the 1st class provision.
    So its only missing 1 coach but its the one thats needed to provide business class.

    The train is running though. I saw 67014 in Holyhead Friday morning when I got off the ferry.
     
  13. tomos dafis

    tomos dafis Member

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    BBC Wales News today carried a piece in which a TFW manager stated confidently that 100 extra carriages would enter service in 2019 to boost capacity.
    So I assume he means 9 x 769's = 36 carriages. 5 x 3 car 230's = 15 carriages. 12 Mk 4 carriages for south Wales - north Wales. That is 63. So do the 12 170's and 5 (non-PRM modified) 153's amount to another 37 carriages?
    What was missing from the statement was that the Pacers may well have to leave by the end of 2019 (TFW have already stated they will be gone then) and 150's will continue to be withdrawn for PRM work in 2019 and there is no certainty that unmodified 150's/153's will be allowed to work after Dec 2019.
    Any way you look at it, there isn't much to be optimistic about in the coming year or indeed 2020. TFW/Keolis Amey are in a corner.
     
  14. tomos dafis

    tomos dafis Member

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    Thanks for that.
     
  15. craigybagel

    craigybagel Established Member

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    They have 2 RFMs - however, neither of them are fit for use at present.
     
  16. Phil from Mon

    Phil from Mon Member

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    Damn. Travelling up from Cardiff on Thursday and was looking forward to an upgrade! I presume that means no hot food either?
     
  17. craigybagel

    craigybagel Established Member

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    At present yes no hot food, however they're hoping to have it back in service from Wednesday evening so hopefully you'll be ok.
     
  18. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

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    The article is about a talk Jame Price the Head of Transport for Wales gave to some Business lunch or Breakfast club recently. Its not a full transcript of what he said, obviously it would be very disappointing indeed if hes spun "hundred new to Wales carriages" without adding "they will replace 68 carriages leaving a net gain of 32".

    TfW's Twitter feed is saying "spring" for the first extra carriages.
     
  19. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

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    Forum members and guest user friends from TfW/WG will no doubt see the irony of this from Shrewsbury and Atcham Labour Party.

    https://www.countytimes.co.uk/news/...aunch-day-of-action-protest-on-cambrian-line/
     
  20. tomos dafis

    tomos dafis Member

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    Having read the article it is clear form comments reported there that many members of the public and political activists are ignorant of the fact that TFW or AW before them, or indeed any other TOC, cannot just decide to "immediately" go out and buy/lease extra rolling stock like buying extra cars - we on here know different. TFW/WG took over the AW fleet "as is" in October and had the misfortune to immediately be hit by storm Callum and a bad Autumn leaf -fall season with unprecedented numbers of trains damaged.
     
  21. tomos dafis

    tomos dafis Member

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    I think the Shrewsbury and Atcham labour group are making the wider point that the problems at TFW, preceded by those under AW, as well as at Northern and other under-resourced TOC's, stem ultimately from the fact that the way in which the privatised railway in the uk is organised and structured is not fit for purpose. It is also worth pointing out that until October last, WG acted simply as "agents" for the DFT in managing Wales and Borders and then issuing specifications for the new franchise. DFT had refused to provide WG as "agents" with funds for new rolling stock until they had negotiated the new franchise; the previous TOC AW had no contractual obligation or commercial incentive to step in.
     
  22. Cardiff123

    Cardiff123 Member

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    According to the other forum, 142073 has been revived by TfW (after being condemned by ATW) and will be back in service by the end of this month.
    Let's hope it can stay in service without catching fire.
     
  23. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

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    Would Shrewsbury and Atcham Labour party be complaining about the consequence of the "no growth" franchise, set up and signed under a Labour Government in Westminster? :oops:
     
  24. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    Yes: 8 x 3-car and 4 x 2-car 170s is 32 vehicles, plus 5 153s is 37.

    I agree that they are being disingenuous to say extra as the additional vehicles are largely all Pacer and Mark 3 replacements.
     
  25. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    It is not up to the TOC to condemn the vehicle it is the owning ROSCO that makes that decision. Indeed, I would not be surprised if Arriva have had to pay for 142073’s repairs as it was not handed back at the end of the ATW franchise in operational condition.
     
  26. Iskra

    Iskra Established Member

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    Can someone briefly summarise what is the purpose of TFW taking the Mk4's on please?
     
  27. sprinterguy

    sprinterguy Established Member

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    To replace the current 'Gerald' mark 3 set on North Wales - Cardiff workings, but in a slightly expanded role, with two mark 4 sets working a total of three trips in each direction per day, and a third set as maintenance spare.

    Presumably this also frees up a unit to replace the standard class only loco-hauled set currently operating between Manchester and North Wales.
     
  28. craigybagel

    craigybagel Established Member

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    The MK3s don't meet PRM requirements - and as the farce with the modified HSTs at ScotRail, Crosscountry and GWR shows, trying to modify them to modern standards is rather complex. The MK4s are much simpler to modify. Given the franchise already has experience with loco and sicks, it's the easiest way to have a fleet that meets the requirements of the WAG for cooked meals on certain Cardiff to Holyhead services.
     
  29. Iskra

    Iskra Established Member

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    Very good. Thanks gents.
     
  30. Phil from Mon

    Phil from Mon Member

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    Many thanks. I’ll keep my fingers crossed!
     

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