ATW Premier Service

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Even though NR say that it is more disruptive to use Mayfield Siding than to send the train on to the Airport, now there are more platforms there.

The three platforms at Manchester Airport do seem quite well used, but maybe the fourth platform when constructed, will offer more in the way of platform availability there.

There is the matter of the First TPE Manchester Airport to Newcastle service which, once the routing changes will see it becoming the Liverpool to Newcastle service, will free up that particular path from Manchester Airport to Manchester Piccadilly. However, there may well be new service patterns in the same time period from West Yorkshire to Manchester Airport that will require paths.

 

[Gareth Marston]

That's pretty much how they get the peak extra in at the moment, although it does need an Up train running earlier to Manchester in mid-afternoon.
To work all day it would need 2 extra units.
It would also be an opportunity to skip a few stations (Helsby, Frodsham and Earlestown) on one of the services, improving journey times and turnrounds.

But there's no stock. And if there were I suspect Cambrian folk would be jumping up and down saying they were at the top of the queue...

The 175 off the morning Llandudno to Cardiff express that duplicates other services as far as Shrewsbury and then carts fresh air to Cardiff. And of course there would be a freed up 175 off the Holyhead to Cardiff diagrams if the work on north to south journey improvements goes ahead.

There's 3 158 diagrams in South Wales including inappropriate use on the Ebbw Vale line.

 

[PHILIPE]

The 158s working to Ebbw Vale came about due to a tightening up of diagrams by taking advantage of the almost hour lay over at Cardiff in order to release a 150 to cover the Chester to Crewe local which, in turn, released a 158 for improved strengthening on the Cambrian (09 30 Aberystwyth to 6 cars) and additional capacity between Chester and Llandudno Jn in the afternoon peak.
They interchange with Maesteg/Cheltenhams.

 

[Rheilffordd]

TPE and Northern objected to ATW being granted Section 17/18 additional paths last time they applied to run an hourly service to MIA.

They cited being unable to expand their own services, performance risk and revenue abstraction as the main reasoning for objection. ORR agreed with this and refused to give additional rights.

ATW still has aspirations to run to MIA on a more regular basis, hence the timetable is still designed to give enough time to run to and from the airport during the time it sits in the loop.

I would personally investigate running a circular service, i.e. Llandudno-Chester-Warrington-Manchester Picc-Airport-Crewe-Chester-Llandudno.

Integrating the Crewe-Chester shuttle.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I would personally investigate running a circular service, i.e. Llandudno-Chester-Warrington-Manchester Picc-Airport-Crewe-Chester-Llandudno.
Integrating the Crewe-Chester shuttle.

The only problem with that is it would have to use P6 at Crewe to reverse. This would not be popular operationally.
My last Airport-Crewe-Chester run in FNW days involved using P12 and shunting out down the Shrewsbury line to reverse!
NT currently has the rights Airport-Crewe. In my experience this service is not well used, at least off-peak.

 

[Welshman]

TPE and Northern objected to ATW being granted Section 17/18 additional paths last time they applied to run an hourly service to MIA.

They cited being unable to expand their own services, performance risk and revenue abstraction as the main reasoning for objection. ORR agreed with this and refused to give additional rights.

ATW still has aspirations to run to MIA on a more regular basis, hence the timetable is still designed to give enough time to run to and from the airport during the time it sits in the loop.

I would personally investigate running a circular service, i.e. Llandudno-Chester-Warrington-Manchester Picc-Airport-Crewe-Chester-Llandudno.

Integrating the Crewe-Chester shuttle.

I don't personally understand why ATW is obsessed with running through to Manchester Airport.

For travellers from the North Wales Coast and Chester, the A55 and M56 roads provide an excellent access to the airport without going through Manchester City Centre. Indeed, from North Wales, you can be exiting the slip road to the airport off the M56 before the equivalent train has negotiated the curve at Earlestown.

For those without access to road transport, or who would prefer to travel by train, there is an excellent same-platform interchange at Manchester Piccadilly for the Aiport with TPE services. This works in both directions.

I think ATW should focus on providing a better service on one of their "core" routes - in this case Piccadilly-Llandudno, and use any extra available stock on a Manchester-Chester shuttle.

 

[Gareth Marston]

I don't personally understand why ATW is obsessed with running through to Manchester Airport.

The slice of the revenue cake from ORCATS my friend - the revenue in the system for Piccadilly- Airport is divided up between TOC's based on scheduled number of carriages run. ATW could run empty but will still get their share- which is why every other already in situ TOC plays hell when theirs a track access application.

Extending their services to Birmingham International in Dec 08 has been a nice earner for ATW even though the trains often dont carry that many passengers. As their 4 car trains earn nearly a much as Cross Countrys 5 car Voyagers.

 

[Rhydgaled]

ATW must have considered this, as it can be neither efficient nor economical use of stock or staff to have a unit laying-over for 50 minutes in every hour in Mayfield siding.

The problem with sending it back to North Wales, presuming there are paths, would be it would then require almost every other service pattern in North Wales to be adjusted. For the present x50 Manchester-Llandudno and x44 return creates a roughly half-hour service in both directions along the North Wales coast with services from/to Holyhead and Cardiff/Birmingham International. And to change the Holyhead-Birmingham pattern would have a knock-on effect on the Birmingham-Aberystwyth service, etc, etc.

I have sometimes thought it would be an idea were the service terminating in Piccadilly at x57 from Llandudno to do a short run to Chester, calling at all stations, departing Piccadilly around x15, arriving in Chester at xx15, returning to Manchester at around xx25, arriving back at xxx25 to form the next xxx50 to Llandudno.

Providing paths were available, this would give a half-hourly Manchester-Chester service, which seems to be needed, and incidentally connect with the present x23 service from Chester to Holyhead, which has originated in Birmingham or Cardiff, and reduce the down time in Manchester from 50 to approx 15 minutes - just enough time to run from Piccadilly to Mayfield siding to reverse, and return.

This would require extra units[and staff], of course, and this could be a problem as ATW seem to be using most of their 158s and 175s at present, judging from the occasional times they have to resort to a 150 on unsuitable services as Birmingham-Holyhead, Cardiff-Manchester or Manchester-Llandudno.

But it looks good from my comfortable chair this Sunday morning!

Interesting. If you can get a half-hourly Manchester - Chester service though, I think it would be better to combine it with either Wrexham or Holyhead services to provide through services to/from Manchester from Wrexham or Bangor. Agreed that rolling stock is a problem, that's one reason why I was questioning the need for 50 min layover in Manchester, cutting that might free some stock, but messing up the frequency on the north Wales coast would be a problem.

As for 150s on unsuitable services, it isn't just an occasional occourance, a 150 is booked on the Fishguard Boat Train, and a 150 is unsuitable for that just as it would be on the services you mention where they only appear occasionally.

The 175 off the morning Llandudno to Cardiff express that duplicates other services as far as Shrewsbury and then carts fresh air to Cardiff. And of course there would be a freed up 175 off the Holyhead to Cardiff diagrams if the work on north to south journey improvements goes ahead.

There's 3 158 diagrams in South Wales including inappropriate use on the Ebbw Vale line.

The 158s working to Ebbw Vale came about due to a tightening up of diagrams by taking advantage of the almost hour lay over at Cardiff in order to release a 150 to cover the Chester to Crewe local which, in turn, released a 158 for improved strengthening on the Cambrian (09 30 Aberystwyth to 6 cars) and additional capacity between Chester and Llandudno Jn in the afternoon peak.
They interchange with Maesteg/Cheltenhams.

The south Wales 158s were used inappropriatly on Maesteg - Cardiff workings before having Ebbw Vale workings added. They do have some long-distance workings though, primarily the evening Fishguard service and, I think, a morning Pembroke Dock run. Really needs one of them diagramed on the Fishguard boat train instead of Maesteg/Ebbw Vale work.

Cardiff - Cheltenham as an awkward service, it's probably a bit long for 150s to be suitable (and I think has linespeeds higher than 75mph) but ATW has the stopper, where outer-suburban units like the 170s used on the Nottingham service (which really should be regional express trains like 158s or 175s) would probably be more appropriate than 158s.

 

[mr williams]

I see from the new December timetable that the northbound Gerald is going to depart Cardiff at 17.16 and for the first time will call at Pontypool.

This must be the first time Pontypool has had a train with a restaurant car since when? 1950s or early 60s?

 

[merlodlliw]

I see from the new December timetable that the northbound Gerald is going to depart Cardiff at 17.16 and for the first time will call at Pontypool.

This must be the first time Pontypool has had a train with a restaurant car since when? 1950s or early 60s?

It has taken over the 1721 franchise service timings, so has to call even as an open access service,however in the North Gerald will no longer stop at Gobowen which serves the large hospital & Oswestry. Gain to the South
To make up for the loss of the 1721 franchise service a DMU will follow Gerald a few minutes later ex Shrewsbury Gobowen/Chirk/Ruabon/Wrexham/Chester etc.
I wonder if Gerald is late will the DMU wait,single track at Wrexham etc. The new timings must be a last ditch attempt to save travelling Chef service so underused,even after the new timing, I have doubts about take up,in my opinion the buffet counter would be ample.


Article in this weeks North Wales Rail newsboard link http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm

On the Premier Express - with John Oates
I travelled on the Premier Express back from Cardiff to Chester on 4 November. I’d checked the website in advance and it was showing 'this week’s menu', but dated 9 October 2013. Oops! On the day, we had 67 002 on the front to Chester with DVT 82308 on the back. All ran to time, and much as I like the Mk3s, I found the ride harsher than in the class 175 on the way down, though to be fair the class 175s provide one of the best rides we have in the UK.

I decided to treat myself to the Premier Upgrade - £24.75 with my 'Old Codger Railcard'. The food, all included in the price of the ticket, was very good. I started with the asparagus soup which tasted like it was 'home made which came with very nice crusty bread. Then followed chicken stuffed with pork, sage, nuts, etc., which was excellent. Then, around the time we sailed through Ludlow a selection of 5 welsh cheeses with chutney and biscuits, all with a pots of tea refreshed all the way back to Chester. This, together with a First Class seat was 'life as it should be'. Being a Monday, I expected patronage to be low, and it was. On leaving Cardiff there were 5 in First Class including me. One left at Newport, another at Abergavenny. No more joined until two of us left at Chester, leaving one going 'down the coast'. The chef and waiting lady in the kitchen looked after us well, whilst another lady ran the buffet counter. I hope it's busier on other days. I think moving the service forward one hour from December should help its patronage – it was too early before, now it’s too late.

'Real life' arrived as I left Chester back to Mobberley on one of Northern’s 142s with the ex-Merseytravel uncomfortable seats as we squealed out of the station.

I had gone there on the 'Club 55' to have a look at the lines around Barry, and also the line past Aberthaw Power Station and on to Bridgend that I’d not travelled on previously, a line that was freight only when I was a student in Cardiff from 1969-1972. Great views over the Bristol Channel to Devon and plenty of coal deliveries with EWS 66s on trains from Avonmouth, Onllwyn Washery and Tower Colliery.

 

[mr williams]

I cannot understand why they don't open the restaurant to standard class passengers if there is room and no 1st class passengers are booked to join further up the line. The staff have to be paid the same amount of money whether they serve five meals or fifteen.

 

[PHILIPE]

Looks like return 1821 from Cardiff tonight is DMU worked due train fault. 3 Coaches.

 

[Llanigraham]

I cannot understand why they don't open the restaurant to standard class passengers if there is room and no 1st class passengers are booked to join further up the line. The staff have to be paid the same amount of money whether they serve five meals or fifteen.

So, instead of commenting on here, why don't you write to ATW and ask them?

 

[anthony263]

Looks like return 1821 from Cardiff tonight is DMU worked due train fault. 3 Coaches.

Either that or they have removed the faulty carriage. I did hear though that there was a problem this morning with the DVT.

 

[craig87034]

Looks like return 1821 from Cardiff tonight is DMU worked due train fault. 3 Coaches.

Ment to be 67029 Cardiff-Chester & 67001 Chester-Holyhead.. well I hope so

 

[Chester025]

Ment to be 67029 Cardiff-Chester & 67001 Chester-Holyhead.. well I hope so

175110. Fingers crossed the above happens tomorrow night...

 

[SprinterMan]

I cannot understand why they don't open the restaurant to standard class passengers if there is room and no 1st class passengers are booked to join further up the line. The staff have to be paid the same amount of money whether they serve five meals or fifteen.

The restaurant is open to standard class customers. I travelled on this train a few months ago in standard and had a delicious restaurant-quality pasta bake for about £8. Any passenger can buy food from the restaurant.

Adam

 

[Chester025]

The restaurant is open to standard class customers. I travelled on this train a few months ago in standard and had a delicious restaurant-quality pasta bake for about £8. Any passenger can buy food from the restaurant.

Yes but not the full grub, which is very nice it must be said!

 

[SprinterMan]

Yes but not the full grub, which is very nice it must be said!

First class get more menu options? I didn't realise that but thinking about it it seems obvious now :P Yes, ATW should sell the full menu to all customers.

Adam

 

[Chester025]

First class get more menu options? I didn't realise that but thinking about it it seems obvious now :P Yes, ATW should sell the full menu to all customers.

Adam

The most recent menu -

http://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/PremierServiceMenu/

 

[merlodlliw]

Looks like return 1821 from Cardiff tonight is DMU worked due train fault. 3 Coaches.

I dont understand the problem sending a DMU,when ATW have a full spare set at Canton, or so I an led to understand,well WG paid for a spare set of Mark 3s on hire to 2015, plus DVT 67 etc

 

[headshot119]

I dont understand the problem sending a DMU,when ATW have a full spare set at Canton, or so I an led to understand,well WG paid for a spare set of Mark 3s on hire to 2015, plus DVT 67 etc

The cost of working it back South or you'd end up with both sets at Holyhead.

 

[merlodlliw]

The cost of working it back South or you'd end up with both sets at Holyhead.

with all respect why have a spare set on stand by for problems,then never use it, when the other set fails.Having both sets at Holyhead is the same as Canton between 1000 & 1800.
After all this is the only Premier Open Access service ATW run with a spare set doing nothing,all paid for by the taxpayer.

 

[PHILIPE]

18 21 Cardiff to Holyhead formed 3 Coaches (presumably 175) and terminating Chester together with the obvious reduced catering. I can only assume that it would not be able to get Gerallt through to Holyhead due storm disruption it would be prudent to keep at Canton.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

18 21 Cardiff to Holyhead formed 3 Coaches (presumably 175) and terminating Chester together with the obvious reduced catering. I can only assume that it would not be able to get Gerallt through to Holyhead due storm disruption it would be prudent to keep at Canton.

Very much so - as the main N Wales Coast line is pretty badly damaged.