ATW "WAG" Premier Service Mk2s

[hexagon789]

Would anyone happen to know which Mk2s were used in the Arriva Trains Wales' Premier Service when it was first introduced and ran with 57s hired from Virgin from December 2008?

I believe they had the same two Mk3 RFM as now 10249 and 10259 but Standard Class was a mix of I believe Mk2e and 2f vehicles.

A search of the forum did not turn up any specific vehicle numbers but I believe six Mk2s were liveried in ATW blue to match the Mk3 RFM and 57s.

Thanks in advance.

 

[DB]

Don't have the numbers to hand, but as I recall the formation was normally Mk2f BSO, 2xMk2f TSO, and the Mk3a RFM, and they were all in ATW livery. I don't recall any Mk2e, but I can't say for certain. They were sold to Riviera, and I think some of them at least were hired by them to DRS for use in the Scorail sets.

The two RFMs were retained, as you say, and used in the recently withdrawn-mk3 sets.

 

[JonathanH]

Would anyone happen to know which Mk2s were used in the Arriva Trains Wales' Premier Service when it was first introduced and ran with 57s hired from Virgin from December 2008?

I believe they had the same two Mk3 RFM as now 10249 and 10259 but Standard Class was a mix of I believe Mk2e and 2f vehicles.

A search of the forum did not turn up any specific vehicle numbers but I believe six Mk2s were liveried in ATW blue to match the Mk3 RFM and 57s.

Thanks in advance.

I had the following:
22 July 2009 57313-9521-5965-6183-10202
4 March 2011 57315-10259-6183-6137-9521
17 April 2012 67003-10259-6183-6137-9521
3 May 2012 67003-10249-6183-6137-9539

so I think the answer is TSOs 5965, 6137, 6183 and BSOs 9521, 9539 which later found their way to Riviera and most recently on hire to Scotrail.

Archive versions of the Abrail website suggest that Arriva's fleet of Mark 2s in 2009 was 5853, 5869, 5913, 5965, 5976, 6013, 6035, 6066, 6119, 6124, 6137, 6162, 6170, 6183, 9503, 9509, 9521, 9524 and 9539.

 

[DB]

I had the following:
22 July 2009 57313-9521-5965-6183-10202
4 March 2011 57315-10259-6183-6137-9521
17 April 2012 67003-10259-6183-6137-9521
3 May 2012 67003-10249-6183-6137-9539

so I think the answer is TSOs 5965, 6137, 6183 and BSOs 9521, 9539 which later found their way to Riviera and most recently on hire to Scotrail.

Archive versions of the Abrail website suggest that Arriva's fleet of Mark 2s in 2009 was 5853, 5869, 5913, 5965, 5976, 6013, 6035, 6066, 6119, 6124, 6137, 6162, 6170, 6183, 9503, 9509, 9521, 9524 and 9539.

10202 was a Cargo-D coach, in blue and grey - it got hired in occasionally, as did at least one other of their RFMs (10246).

 

[theblackwatch]

I had the following:
22 July 2009 57313-9521-5965-6183-10202
4 March 2011 57315-10259-6183-6137-9521
17 April 2012 67003-10259-6183-6137-9521
3 May 2012 67003-10249-6183-6137-9539

so I think the answer is TSOs 5965, 6137, 6183 and BSOs 9521, 9539 which later found their way to Riviera and most recently on hire to Scotrail.

Archive versions of the Abrail website suggest that Arriva's fleet of Mark 2s in 2009 was 5853, 5869, 5913, 5965, 5976, 6013, 6035, 6066, 6119, 6124, 6137, 6162, 6170, 6183, 9503, 9509, 9521, 9524 and 9539.

That list sounds about right from memory. Before moving to ATW, some of those vehicles were used by Arriva Trains Northern during 2003/2004.

 

[Neptune]

I believe ATW took on 24 mk2f’s originally mainly for Valley lines and Millenium stadium services. The 6 (4xTSO & 2xBSO) used by ATN were part of the fleet. The premier service, when introduced, took the coaches from this batch and added the RFM’s.

The ATN BSO’s were 9521 and 9524 from what I remember of working the Leodis set.

 

[JonathanH]

It does appear that 5976 was the sixth Mark 2 carriage dedicated to these services http://www.precisionlabels.com/d62.html

 

[hexagon789]

Don't have the numbers to hand, but as I recall the formation was normally Mk2f BSO, 2xMk2f TSO, and the Mk3a RFM, and they were all in ATW livery. I don't recall any Mk2e, but I can't say for certain. They were sold to Riviera, and I think some of them at least were hired by them to DRS for use in the Scorail sets.

The two RFMs were retained, as you say, and used in the recently withdrawn-mk3 sets.

I have the usual formations which started as

57-Mk3a RFM-Mk2e/f TSO-Mk2e/f BSO-57

Then the second 57 was dropped and an extra TSO inserted, I appreciate the Rivera comment that would help with certain vehicles perhaps.

I had the following:
22 July 2009 57313-9521-5965-6183-10202
4 March 2011 57315-10259-6183-6137-9521
17 April 2012 67003-10259-6183-6137-9521
3 May 2012 67003-10249-6183-6137-9539

so I think the answer is TSOs 5965, 6137, 6183 and BSOs 9521, 9539 which later found their way to Riviera and most recently on hire to Scotrail.

Archive versions of the Abrail website suggest that Arriva's fleet of Mark 2s in 2009 was 5853, 5869, 5913, 5965, 5976, 6013, 6035, 6066, 6119, 6124, 6137, 6162, 6170, 6183, 9503, 9509, 9521, 9524 and 9539.

Excellent, I tried the archive for both The Junction and Abrail but the former wouldn't display and the latter didn't seem to have formations pre-2015 or so.

10202 was a Cargo-D coach, in blue and grey - it got hired in occasionally, as did at least one other of their RFMs (10246).

Interesting, given only one set was generally in use I assumed one spare RFM was sufficient but I've never come across the hiring in of spares

I believe ATW took on 24 mk2f’s originally mainly for Valley lines and Millenium stadium services. The 6 (4xTSO & 2xBSO) used by ATN were part of the fleet. The premier service, when introduced, took the coaches from this batch and added the RFM’s.

The ATN BSO’s were 9521 and 9524 from what I remember of working the Leodis set.

That ties in with suggestions they had 24 Mk2s in another thread but that thread didn't elaborate on actual vehicles.

It does appear that 5976 was the sixth Mark 2 carriage dedicated to these services http://www.precisionlabels.com/d62.html

Thanks for the link, though it looks as though they've erroneously converted a HST Mk3 TRFB instead of the correct four-window Mk3a RFM to represent the first class/buffet car

 

[JonathanH]

Interesting, given only one set was generally in use I assumed one spare RFM was sufficient but I've never come across the hiring in of spares

Was 10202 possibly used before either 10249 or 10259 were ready?

any idea what this is?

From CARDIFCEN to SHREWSBRY Loco/set no: CF01 Prev: CF898 Curr: CF899 Next: Vehicles: 10202 6183 5965...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[DB]

Interesting, given only one set was generally in use I assumed one spare RFM was sufficient but I've never come across the hiring in of spares

This is from memory, and I can't remember the exact timing, but as I recall they initially only had one RFM, 10249, which was leased from Cargo-D, but done out in ATW livery. At some point they appear to have bought this one (not sure whether it was when Cargo-D went bust, or before). A while after the service started they bought 10259 from store (direct from Porterbrook, I assume), and had that one overhauled and painted. The grey and blue ones therefore appeared in the early days if 10249 was out of action.

More recently, 10246 did appear again for a short period, in the all-Mk3 set - presuambly both of the ATW ones must have been out of action. It had AAR through-wiring from its hire to Wrexham & Shropshire, so could be used with the DVT. Don't believe that 10202 ever had the wiring.

Of these two RFMs, 10202 is now owned by the 125 group, and 10246 was sent to Booths.

Chiltern recently advertised a number of mk3s for sale - it wasn't specified as to actual vehicles, but it appeared to be the Wales sets plus the Chiltern slam-door set.

 

[hexagon789]

This is from memory, and I can't remember the exact timing, but as I recall they initially only had one RFM, 10249, which was leased from Cargo-D, but done out in ATW livery. At some point they appear to have bought this one (not sure whether it was when Cargo-D went bust, or before). A while after the service started they bought 10259 from store (direct from Porterbrook, I assume), and had that one overhauled and painted. The grey and blue ones therefore appeared in the early days if 10249 was out of action.

More recently, 10246 did appear again for a short period, in the all-Mk3 set - presuambly both of the ATW ones must have been out of action. It had AAR through-wiring from its hire to Wrexham & Shropshire, so could be used with the DVT. Don't believe that 10202 ever had the wiring.

Of these two RFMs, 10202 is now owned by the 125 group, and 10246 was sent to Booths.

Chiltern recently advertised a number of mk3s for sale - it wasn't specified as to actual vehicles, but it appeared to be the Wales sets plus the Chiltern slam-door set.

I know one had a sort of conference compartment or something and the spare was initially to allow that to be removed or something I think.

 

[hexagon789]

Was 10202 possibly used before either 10249 or 10259 were ready?

any idea what this is?

From CARDIFCEN to SHREWSBRY Loco/set no: CF01 Prev: CF898 Curr: CF899 Next: Vehicles: 10202 6183 5965...

www.railforums.co.uk

I've no idea but it's quite possible

 

[morrisobrien]

Off topic maybe, but is this service still in existence?

 

[DB]

Off topic maybe, but is this service still in existence?

Yes, but don't know whether it's running at the moment. The stock is now mk4s with a Class 67 and is intended to be two sets out, rather than one.

 

[hexagon789]

Off topic maybe, but is this service still in existence?

Yes it does, but has been fully Mk3 and been hauled/pushed by 67s since 2012.

The frequency is to go to thrice daily and stock to Mk4s at some point.

 

[DB]

Yes it does, but has been fully Mk3 and been hauled/pushed by 67s since 2012.

The frequency is to go to thrice daily and stock to Mk4s at some point.

Thw Mk3s are all withdrawn now.

 

[morrisobrien]

The frequency is to go to thrice daily and stock to Mk4s at some poin

Excellent news....thank you.

 

[hexagon789]

Thw Mk3s are all withdrawn now.

Sorry I forgot. I knew it was of course in progress but I've have rather lost track of what's happening with it

 

[hexagon789]

Excellent news....thank you.

Indeed, it seems to have become far more popular since its introduction when it often seemed to be more of the private train of the WAG than a heavily used peak time service, particularly in first class