Austria (and perhaps other European countries?) return to full lockdown

[Jamiescott1]

Been in quebec for past 2 weeks. Its like going back in time
- rule of 6
- bars closed
- 50% capacity in shops, so queues
- mandatory hand sanitiser to enter everywhere
- restaurants to close by 10pm
- vaccine passports to enter restaurants and shopping centre food courts

 

[92002]

It's a pity that people often only seem interested in information that reinforces their own viewpoint rather than seeking anything that might contradict it.

Piece on the BBC earlier. A plane load of UK passengers refused entry into Austria today. New regulations that came in on Christmas Day requires a PCR negative test to enter.
So back to 3 tests to go to Austria. One to enter another before you come back and a Day 2 one when you get back.

Needless to say a certificate of two jabs and a booster is also required.

Making it quite an expensive ski trip from UK. Better just ski at home.

 

[Bikeman78]

Reported elsewhere that the trains from Rotterdam across the border to Antwerpen are reportedly very busy, as is the parallel road. The Netherlands is in lockdown so the Dutch are crossing the border for a day out or to go for a meal. The NS is asking people not to travel. Would it rather run the trains empty? Perhaps it should lay on extras!

 

[seagull]

Not surprised, when these rules have been introduced in the Netherlands (since December 19th):

Max. two household guests per day (excluding children under the age of 13)
Max. four household guests on December 24, 25, 26, and 31 (excluding children under the age of 13)
When outside, max. group size of two (if not from the same household) (excluding children under the age of 13)
When outside, max. group size of four on December 24, 25, 26, and 31 (if not from the same household) (excluding children under the age of 13)
Non-essential shops to close (open for click and collect)
Catering industry to close (open for takeaway)
Museums to close
Cinemas to close
Zoos to close
Theatres to close
Casinos to close
Theme parks to close
Concert halls to close
Gyms and other indoor sports facilities to close
Enforced opening times of 5am - 5pm for outdoor sports facilities
Ban on all events (including Christmas markets)
Hairdressers and other non-medical contact-based professions to close

In addition the Dutch government telling its citizens what types of Christmas meals they should and shouldn't be cooking (examples: avoid cold desserts as a cold spoon transmits the virus more easily, avoid meals that take too long to eat and instead prepare salads, etc.).

Insanity.

 

[Bikeman78]

Not surprised, when these rules have been introduced in the Netherlands (since December 19th):

Max. two household guests per day (excluding children under the age of 13)
Max. four household guests on December 24, 25, 26, and 31 (excluding children under the age of 13)
When outside, max. group size of two (if not from the same household) (excluding children under the age of 13)
When outside, max. group size of four on December 24, 25, 26, and 31 (if not from the same household) (excluding children under the age of 13)
Non-essential shops to close (open for click and collect)
Catering industry to close (open for takeaway)
Museums to close
Cinemas to close
Zoos to close
Theatres to close
Casinos to close
Theme parks to close
Concert halls to close
Gyms and other indoor sports facilities to close
Enforced opening times of 5am - 5pm for outdoor sports facilities
Ban on all events (including Christmas markets)
Hairdressers and other non-medical contact-based professions to close

In addition the Dutch government telling its citizens what types of Christmas meals they should and shouldn't be cooking (examples: avoid cold desserts as a cold spoon transmits the virus more easily, avoid meals that take too long to eat and instead prepare salads, etc.).

Insanity.

It's almost as if the vaccine never happened. Is the Dutch health care system really that fragile? It's no wonder that people are bending the rules. A year ago there was an exit strategy. Now there is none so it's no surprise that people have lost interest.

 

[nw1]

I would never have guessed that of all the countries in Europe, the Netherlands of all places is taking the most authoritarian approach, even extending to directing you what sort of food to eat.

 

[Ediswan]

In addition the Dutch government telling its citizens what types of Christmas meals they should and shouldn't be cooking (examples: avoid cold desserts as a cold spoon transmits the virus more easily, avoid meals that take too long to eat and instead prepare salads, etc.).

So cold food is safer when a main course, but less safe when a dessert ? Had whoever came up with those rules spent a bit too much time in a coffeeshop ?

 

[seagull]

So cold food is safer when a main course, but less safe when a dessert ? Had whoever came up with those rules spent a bit too much time in a coffeeshop ?

Like many of these rules, absolute nonsense and the sort of stuff that would make even the most fantastical novelist blush.

 

[Bantamzen]

Not surprised, when these rules have been introduced in the Netherlands (since December 19th):

Max. two household guests per day (excluding children under the age of 13)
Max. four household guests on December 24, 25, 26, and 31 (excluding children under the age of 13)
When outside, max. group size of two (if not from the same household) (excluding children under the age of 13)
When outside, max. group size of four on December 24, 25, 26, and 31 (if not from the same household) (excluding children under the age of 13)
Non-essential shops to close (open for click and collect)
Catering industry to close (open for takeaway)
Museums to close
Cinemas to close
Zoos to close
Theatres to close
Casinos to close
Theme parks to close
Concert halls to close
Gyms and other indoor sports facilities to close
Enforced opening times of 5am - 5pm for outdoor sports facilities
Ban on all events (including Christmas markets)
Hairdressers and other non-medical contact-based professions to close

In addition the Dutch government telling its citizens what types of Christmas meals they should and shouldn't be cooking (examples: avoid cold desserts as a cold spoon transmits the virus more easily, avoid meals that take too long to eat and instead prepare salads, etc.).

Insanity.

I think whoever dreamt that lot up has had one too many herbal based products..

 

[nw1]

So cold food is safer when a main course, but less safe when a dessert ? Had whoever came up with those rules spent a bit too much time in a coffeeshop ?

Strange mix of legislation. In normal times it's OK to smoke pot, but woe betide you if you play sport outside at 1701. "Covid is an illness that you can only catch after 1700". Some of these 'time based' rules were clearly drawn up by complete idiots.

And the Netherlands is of course on CET, which means it's likely to be still light at 1701 (not that whether it's day or night should make any difference given most outdoor sport facilities have floodlights...)

 

[philosopher]

Strange mix of legislation. In normal times it's OK to smoke pot, but woe betide you if you play sport outside at 1701. "Covid is an illness that you can only catch after 1700". Some of these 'time based' rules were clearly drawn up by complete idiots.

And the Netherlands is of course on CET, which means it's likely to be still light at 1701 (not that whether it's day or night should make any difference given most outdoor sport facilities have floodlights...)

Curfews or enforced early closing times must be one of the more baffling responses of governments to Covid. All it would achieve is to make it more crowded during the limited hours they are open, which defeats the purpose of social distancing. The only explanation I can see is that governments are doing as they don’t want people on the streets after dark when they are more likely to cause trouble.

Fortunately, England, apart from in autumn 2020 has avoided this nonsense.

 

[nw1]

Curfews or enforced early closing times must be one of the more baffling responses of governments to Covid. All it would achieve is to make it more crowded during the limited hours they are open, which defeats the purpose of social distancing. The only explanation I can see is that governments are doing as they don’t want people on the streets after dark when they are more likely to cause trouble.

Fortunately, England, apart from in autumn 2020 has avoided this nonsense.

Yes, we had the Gove 'if you walk in a forest on your own for two hours you are a rampant Covid spreader' nonsense, but thankfully no time-based rules. Just as well, as based on the time of sunset it would probably mean a 1600 curfew in December - compared to most continental European countries, the UK gets a raw deal with evening daylight.

 

[Yew]

Curfews or enforced early closing times must be one of the more baffling responses of governments to Covid. All it would achieve is to make it more crowded during the limited hours they are open, which defeats the purpose of social distancing. The only explanation I can see is that governments are doing as they don’t want people on the streets after dark when they are more likely to cause trouble.

Fortunately, England, apart from in autumn 2020 has avoided this nonsense.

Indeed, I think it's to control people and prevent disorder, rather than control the virus.

 

[island]

Strange mix of legislation. In normal times it's OK to smoke pot, but woe betide you if you play sport outside at 1701. "Covid is an illness that you can only catch after 1700". Some of these 'time based' rules were clearly drawn up by complete idiots.

I disagree – they can in principle reduce the amount of exposure and transmission of the virus. Whilst closing the facilities altogether would of course reduce it further, this isn't a binary calculation and there are consequences to closing completely.

Admittedly, it makes a lot more sense when applied to pubs than to sportsgrounds.

 

[nw1]

I disagree – they can in principle reduce the amount of exposure and transmission of the virus. Whilst closing the facilities altogether would of course reduce it further, this isn't a binary calculation and there are consequences to closing completely.

Admittedly, it makes a lot more sense when applied to pubs than to sportsgrounds.

OK that is a fair point thinking about it, but makes little sense for (say) shopping as it packs more people into the town centres during the times the shops are allowed to be open - hence more transmission. (I am aware this is not applicable in the Netherlands).

I do certainly think, however, that blanket curfews, which criminalise waking around empty streets on your own, are futile and more an exercise in 'appearing tough to scare people' more than anything else.

 

[Jamiescott1]

Announced today (the day before new years eve). As from 5pm on 31st December quebec has forced all restaurants to close, youre not allowed to meet another household, schools won't reopen until mid January and there's a nighttime curfew.
Imagine how heartless it is to announce these restrictions on 30th December ruining the plans of millions for new years eve.

 

[Red Onion]

That’s just horrible and I seriously question how well followed the curfew and ban on household mixing will be.

It is also surprising as Quebec is one of the most vaccine passport happy areas in the world, they are required for almost everything, including visiting a dying relative in hospital. Beyond medical treatment, outdoor exercise and grocery shopping, unvaccinated people cannot do anything. Yet there’s a widespread belief that it’s their fault that there is the increase in cases and the very premises they are banned from are closing.

Further proof that these divisive policies do not work.

 

[philosopher]

Announced today (the day before new years eve). As from 5pm on 31st December quebec has forced all restaurants to close, youre not allowed to meet another household, schools won't reopen until mid January and there's a nighttime curfew.
Imagine how heartless it is to announce these restrictions on 30th December ruining the plans of millions for new years eve.

This seems to be harshest yet new set of restrictions introduced in response to the Omicron Covid variant. At least the Netherlands still allows two household guests to meet indoors currently. In Quebec meeting anyone outside in January can’t be much fun!

It makes me wonder how do Quebec, the Netherlands, Austria, France and the other places that have imposed harsh restrictions this winter intend to get to a situation where there are no longer legal curbs on people in response to Covid? Or is it going to be like this every winter from now on in these places?

 

[greyman42]

When people talk about emigrating to these wonderful countries such as Canada, New Zealand and Australia and how rubbish Great Britain is, perhaps they should realise how lucky they are to live here.

 

[43066]

When people talk about emigrating to these wonderful countries such as Canada, New Zealand and Australia and how rubbish Great Britain is, perhaps they should realise how lucky they are to live here.

Have to agree with this. I wonder if it’s something to do with the fact the places with the greatest zeal for authoritarianism are often not mature, democratic countries, but have systems or government which are only a few generations old. There doesn’t appear to be any ability to those with dissenting views to alter the pro restriction trajectory of their governments, in the way we have recently seen with the Tory backbenchers’ rebellion.

 

[Mag_seven]

Have to agree with this. I wonder if it’s something to do with the fact the places with the greatest zeal for authoritarianism are often not mature, democratic countries, but have systems or government which are only a few generations old. There doesn’t appear to be any ability to those with dissenting views to alter the pro restriction trajectory of their governments, in the way we have recently seen with the Tory backbenchers’ rebellion.

Scotland and Wales!

 

[greyman42]

Scotland and Wales!

How very true!

 

[Red Onion]

When people talk about emigrating to these wonderful countries such as Canada, New Zealand and Australia and how rubbish Great Britain is, perhaps they should realise how lucky they are to live here.

Completely agree. Scotland is utterly bananas as far as I’m concerned but even we have a fair degree of liberty compared to some of these other countries.

It’s just sad that we are in a race to the bottom with Wales and NI.

 

[43066]

Scotland and Wales!

I suppose the authoritarianism there is coming from the recently devolved administrations “we have these shiny new levers of power so we must pull them!”

There’s also the wider U.K. political picture which is that these devolved administrations are desperate to be seen to be different to Westminster to justify their own existence. I’m convinced that underpins much of the Scottish response, in particular.

 

[102 fan]

Completely agree. Scotland is utterly bananas as far as I’m concerned but even we have a fair degree of liberty compared to some of these other countries.

It’s just sad that we are in a race to the bottom with Wales and NI.

NI has elections in May. It'll be interesting to see if anything changes before that.

 

[brad465]

Scotland and Wales!

And Northern Ireland.

 

[danm14]

NI has elections in May. It'll be interesting to see if anything changes before that.

Elections in Northern Ireland are not normal elections. People will not vote for a different party in numbers great enough to make a difference because of something as minor and inconsequential (sarcasm) as Covid restrictions. The only thing that really matters at the ballot box is "Keeping Themmuns' Out".

The DUP (unionist) are the only major party who are opposed to Covid restrictions. Sinn Fein (nationalist), the SDLP (nationalist) the UUP (unionist) and the Alliance Party (other) all support them unconditionally.

It is lunacy to suggest that non-Unionists will start voting DUP in enough numbers to make a difference. The same has been suggested in the past in relation to Catholic opposition to abortion and same sex marriage - it never materialised.

There may be a small swing from UUP to DUP, but this won't be enough to make any meaningful difference.

In any case, as Northern Ireland has mandatory coalition, it is de facto impossible to have an anti-restriction government without one or more nationalist parties becoming anti-restrictions and both them and the DUP forming a coalition big enough to ensure a majority on any vote on restrictions.

 

[oldman]

Quebec is a devolved administration within Canada. There may be a bit of 'we have the power so we'll use it to show we're different' or 'we'll protect our people better than the irresponsible national government'.

However that doesn't explain Netherlands, which might be considered one of the more "mature, democratic countries".

 

[hst43102]

Quebec is a devolved administration within Canada. There may be a bit of 'we have the power so we'll use it to show we're different' or 'we'll protect our people better than the irresponsible national government'.

However that doesn't explain Netherlands, which might be considered one of the more "mature, democratic countries".

France must surely also be considered a "mature, democratic country"?

 

[43066]

France must surely also be considered a "mature, democratic country"?

Not in quite the same way as the U.K. In fact France has existed as a republic for less time than the USA! The Netherlands is a better counter example as, like the U.K., it’s political system was essentially a feudal style monarchy which has incrementally evolved into a modern democracy.

The response of certain countries to Covid is also a powerful counter argument to those who argue that codified constitutions are in any way beneficial as a way of protecting individual liberty. The USA, Australia, South Africa and Austria have written constitutions. All have behaved fairly diabolically towards their citizens over the last two years.