Austria (and perhaps other European countries?) return to full lockdown

[nw1]

I was referring to the Nationality and Borders Bill - which I erroneously called an Act, which it isn't yet - it hasn't even started to go through the House of Lords.

The parts of that regarding Ministerial power to withdraw UK citizenship (without notice or reason given!) for those who 'may' be eligible for another citizenship, for one example, are extremely problematic.

Yes, indeed, this Government's 'attitude' towards immigration is IMO very, very much more sinister than anything Labour may have come out with regarding over-harsh restrictions. Hard-right populist nonsense. Same goes for their bad 'attitude' towards protest.

But this is going OT now so perhaps best moved to the 'When will it go wrong for the Tories' thread...

 

[MikeWM]

Yes, indeed, this Government's 'attitude' towards immigration is IMO very, very much more sinister than anything Labour may have come out with regarding over-harsh restrictions. Hard-right populist nonsense. Same goes for their bad 'attitude' towards protest.

To me they are two sides of the same coin however. We have to have fundamental rights upheld (ie. not just ministerial diktat, or over-wide laws subject to ambiguous interpretation) for *everyone*. I don't currently see any of the parties available offering that.

But this is going OT now so perhaps best moved to the 'When will it go wrong for the Tories' thread...

Yes, agreed. My fault, sorry!

 

[Bikeman78]

The problem with asking the people is that, after two years of constant propaganda and lies, they may not be making rational decisions.

Consider this rather terrifying poll of Democrat voters in the USA:

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/pu...rsh_measures_against_unvaccinated?aff_id=1262

- 55% support fines for those unvaccinated.
- 59% support lockdown for the unvaccinated 'at all times, except in emergencies'
- 48% think there should be fines or prison (!) for those that question the efficacy of the vaccines in the media or on the internet
- 45% would support proposals for the unvaccinated to be forced to 'temporarily' live in a 'designated facility or location'
- 47% think the unvaccinated should be digitally tracked by the government
- 29% think the unvaccinated should have their children taken away from them

Which seems to me to be a pretty clear example of what two years of constant propaganda and lies can do to a significant part of the population.

If the vaccinated people that took part in this poll believe that the vaccine works, what are they so afraid of?

 

[Baxenden Bank]

If the vaccinated people that took part in this poll believe that the vaccine works, what are they so afraid of?

Fear of the unknown.
Fear of somebody being / doing something / daring to be different. Always the risk that that other person may be right and they themselves be wrong - can't be having that. Just like that person wearing a different brand of trainer, or supporting a different football club. You are either 100% with us or 100% against us. No room for individuality or freedom of choice in the brave new populist world.

Many of the vaccinated took the vaccine because they were TOLD to do so, TOLD it was 'absolutely essential to save the human race' (slight over-egging) and to not do so made you 'a danger to society as a whole'. Not because of the benefits of vaccination per se i.e. the young, healthy female rather than elderly CEV male.

 

[takno]

If the vaccinated people that took part in this poll believe that the vaccine works, what are they so afraid of?

A lot of parents in the US are absolutely terrified that their under-5 can't be vaccinated and will catch it from an unvaccinated demon and certainly die. They've been fed so much meaningless propaganda on the impact and risk of Covid, and the magical effectiveness of vaccines and masks that they can't form anything approaching a balanced opinion at all.

Unfortunately that's what happens when you have a shifty government, exclusively partisan media and generally poor civics education. There is plenty to be angry about with our government and media, but by comparison to the US they are paragons of honest opinion and informed debate.

Sadly a proportion of our population get most of their media via US-controlled social media platforms, and their access to information is being constrained by the rather narrow lens of what those US-controlled companies deem acceptable. This is leading to a small undercurrent of people hysterically and wrongly worrying about their toddlers in the UK.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

A lot of parents in the US are absolutely terrified that their under-5 can't be vaccinated and will catch it from an unvaccinated demon and certainly die. They've been fed so much meaningless propaganda on the impact and risk of Covid, and the magical effectiveness of vaccines and masks that they can't form anything approaching a balanced opinion at all.

Unfortunately that's what happens when you have a shifty government, exclusively partisan media and generally poor civics education. There is plenty to be angry about with our government and media, but by comparison to the US they are paragons of honest opinion and informed debate.

Sadly a proportion of our population get most of their media via US-controlled social media platforms, and their access to information is being constrained by the rather narrow lens of what those US-controlled companies deem acceptable. This is leading to a small undercurrent of people hysterically and wrongly worrying about their toddlers in the UK.

No-one seems to be countering those extreme, poorly informed, opinions. Those 'in charge' seem to be quite pleased to let the 'hate the minority' bandwagon roll through town. There needs to be pushback against both anti-vaxxer conspiracist nonsense and what you might call the unrealistic beliefs of ultra pro-vaxxers.

"We believe, the virus will be defeated, we can be saved. Now just believe that bit harder, now a bit more, and a bit more, victory is around the corner. That bloke over there, he is unvaccinated, he is personally responsible for 1m cases per day. Find him, catch him, bin him".

Once it has been released no-one can control the mob (reality numerous mobs occasionally aligning). Initially it runs in your favour, you both get along great, you see no problems at all. Then the mob turns and you realise what a dangerous, uncontrollable beast it is. Ask the former heads of say troubled African states who found 'people militias' very convenient and then not so convenient when they (the dodgy head) couldn't deliver on their promises to the public.

 

[Bikeman78]

A lot of parents in the US are absolutely terrified that their under-5 can't be vaccinated and will catch it from an unvaccinated demon and certainly die. They've been fed so much meaningless propaganda on the impact and risk of Covid, and the magical effectiveness of vaccines and masks that they can't form anything approaching a balanced opinion at all.

Unfortunately that's what happens when you have a shifty government, exclusively partisan media and generally poor civics education. There is plenty to be angry about with our government and media, but by comparison to the US they are paragons of honest opinion and informed debate.

Sadly a proportion of our population get most of their media via US-controlled social media platforms, and their access to information is being constrained by the rather narrow lens of what those US-controlled companies deem acceptable. This is leading to a small undercurrent of people hysterically and wrongly worrying about their toddlers in the UK.

As I've said before, I hope none of the hysterical people drive. Their toddler is more likely to be killed by a car than Covid. Maybe that should be on the national news more often. The BBC did mention it last year.

 

[Ediswan]

Their toddler is more likely to be killed by a car than Covid. Maybe that should be on the national news more often. The BBC did mention it last year.

Road safety is the subject of Panorama this evening - heavily trailed. The BBC local news is also revisiting two relatively recent serious accidents on the same section of the A10. Though the general theme seems to be 'why are the police not doing more' rather than the underlying prevalence of bad driving.

 

[Watershed]

The trailed changes in France have finally passed Parliament and are slated to take effect from Thursday. In summary, those aged 16+ will no longer be able to use negative tests to enter restaurants, bars, cinemas, or large venues and will need a vaccine or recovery pass. For those over 18 years and 1 month, a booster is necessary if the 2nd dose was over 7 months ago. From 15 February the 7 months drop to 4.

I wish they'd give up with the pretence that it is still a choice. Yes, if you live like a hermit then you can get away with it, but otherwise it is as good as mandatory.

They all want the effect of it being mandatory - being seen to be tough on this month's "Public Enemy No. 1" - without admitting to the authoritarianism they're using to get there.

 

[Bikeman78]

Road safety is the subject of Panorama this evening - heavily trailed. The BBC local news is also revisiting two relatively recent serious accidents on the same section of the A10. Though the general theme seems to be 'why are the police not doing more' rather than the underlying prevalence of bad driving.

I've just watched Panorama. Interesting that road deaths increased slightly in 2020. Pedestrians and cyclists now account for half of those deaths. I wonder to what extent scaring people off buses played a part in this. More cyclists and pedestrians without any improvement in facilities for them to use is bound to result in more accidents.

 

[kristiang85]

I've just watched Panorama. Interesting that road deaths increased slightly in 2020. Pedestrians and cyclists now account for half of those deaths. I wonder to what extent scaring people off buses played a part in this. More cyclists and pedestrians without any improvement in facilities for them to use is bound to result in more accidents.

There could be a few theories...
- Indeed scaring people off public transport is not helping, as you say, both from more pedestrians/cylists and more drivers on the road.
- Maybe drivers who weren't going into work every day were getting rusty and making more errors.
- More people walking/cycling in country roads during staycations, where there are more blind corners.
- Lots of new cyclists who were inexperienced on roads.
- Organised events like parkrun/marathons/cycling races etc. being banned meant more lone runners/cyclists, therefore more risk as people wanted to get the energy out of their system.


In other news, you would think the French, at over 500,000 cases a day, would realise their damaging measures are having no effect.

But oh no...

French law requiring COVID-19 vaccination to enter public venues like restaurants, cafes, cinemas, and long-distance trains takes effect on Monday, prime minister says