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Authorised person

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158801

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the National Conditions Of Travel mentions it and as do these forums almost every day. But what, or who, is an authorised person when it comes to authorising tickets and travel ?

Some situations are easy. I board a Virgin Trains service at Stockport and the Train Manager sees me and says “sit in 1st class”. It’s their train so they are in charge.

However, let’s say I hold a Virgin Trains only ticket from Stockport to Stoke on Trent. Virgin cancel my train. I ask the Virgin Trains staff at Stockport if my ticket is ok to use on the next Northern service and they say yes. Are the authorised to do this ? It seems a bit unfair that Northern have had no say in the matter, receive no money, yet get lumbered with a Virgin Trains passenger.

Another scenario is a passenger going Hull to Southampton with an off peak ticket route Not London. The train from Hull to Doncaster is late and I miss my Cross Country connection. The Northern guard gives me permission to go via London. It’s more expensive and I’m using different operators. Are they authorised to do this.

I suppose in an extreme example I purchase a Std All Line Roger for 14 days. My first trip on Grand Central I speak to the Train Manager who gives me permission to sit in 1st Class for the next two weeks!
 
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158801

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If you are right and an authorised person can permit all of the above then it just shows what a crazy f****d up railway we have in this country.

Imagine Heathrow Airport where a baggage handler from Qatar Airlines can authorise a ticket holder from Air France to travel on Quantas to Paris via Sydney
 

Bensonby

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Also, “any Constable” acting in the execution of his duties is an authorised person.

Now, I’m a police officer (not BTP) and have had cause to step in off duty to deal with things - often on the request of rail staff. I’ve always assumed that as my duties involve enforcing the law/keeping the peace that I was an authorised person. I’ve used powers such as ejection before. However, I would not consider myself an authorised person to give upgrades etc.
 

alistairlees

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If you are right and an authorised person can permit all of the above then it just shows what a crazy f****d up railway we have in this country.

Imagine Heathrow Airport where a baggage handler from Qatar Airlines can authorise a ticket holder from Air France to travel on Quantas to Paris via Sydney
Why is there any need to imagine that? There is no single conditions of travel for airlines that binds them into helping one another; nor do they operate a single unified network with interoperable ticketing and connections. Which is why the two are completely different and drawing comparisons like that is not constructive.
 

158801

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It's not the single unified network that concerns me. Nor is it the interoperable tickets and connections.

It is the fact that one person has so much power that, in the bigger scheme of things, could cause chaos and many complaints.

Imagine Virgin trains cancelling a train from Manchester to London and a person (whom by the very fact that they work for the "railway"), tells all 450 people on board to travel to Leeds on Tpe and Lner from Leeds to London. Conditions on the 3 carriage Tpe train are horrendous and LNER aren't happy either. Tpe and LNER have no say in the matter. They don't want these people on their services.

There will always be members of staff who, for an easy life must tell the customer to do anything to get rid of them.

This leads to bad customer service. "oh, the man at Manchester said I could". It leads to unwanted and unessary confrontation. Three hardly any ever any proof of what has been said and by whom.

How does the guard know who's trying it on and who's been told by an authorised person.?

Yes, if we had a controlled and coordinated authorisation system then I would welcome this but the half arsed word of mouth authorisatiin by anybody is a farce.
 

yorkie

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Imagine Virgin trains cancelling a train from Manchester to London and a person (whom by the very fact that they work for the "railway"), tells all 450 people on board to travel to Leeds on Tpe and Lner from Leeds to London. Conditions on the 3 carriage Tpe train are horrendous and LNER aren't happy either. Tpe and LNER have no say in the matter. They don't want these people on their services.
This is pure fantasy, but if it happened, LNER/TPE would complain to Virgin who would have words with this member of staff and it wouldn't happen again.
There will always be members of staff who, for an easy life must tell the customer to do anything to get rid of them.
In my experience (and that includes a lot of experience of advising in cases where other people have travelled, so not just my own journeys), it is far more likely that staff deny passengers their rights than do as you describe.
This leads to bad customer service. "oh, the man at Manchester said I could". It leads to unwanted and unessary confrontation. Three hardly any ever any proof of what has been said and by whom.
Ideally endorsements should be made on paper, unless ticket acceptance has been officially announced, but in your example of 450 people all turned up at King's Cross saying Euston sent them there, I don't think anyone would be claiming they're all lying.
How does the guard know who's trying it on and who's been told by an authorised person.?

Yes, if we had a controlled and coordinated authorisation system then I would welcome this but the half arsed word of mouth authorisatiin by anybody is a farce.
Have you encountered an issue? Do you have a real example of a problem that actually happened?
 

Jonfun

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The simple solution to all of this is to give all rail staff a printed 'endorsements' duplicate/triplicate pad so they can put the authority in writing and any improper endorsements can be tracked to an individual member of staff.
 

EM2

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...in your example of 450 people all turned up at King's Cross saying Euston sent them there, I don't think anyone would be claiming they're all lying.
Not saying that someone at Euston didn't tell them to go to King's Cross, but that doesn't mean that they agreed with King's Cross to send them there!
 

Hadders

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Where I work I am authorised to make decisions about some things but not others.

It is my responsibility to exercise the authorisation I hold appropriately.

The same applies on the railway. If someone doesn’t have authority to authorise something then they shouldn’t seek to do so.
 
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