Automatic barriers - do they just read the ticket?

[nedchester]

When you put a ticket through barriers do they just read the ticket (date, validity etc) or do they also put information on the ticket to say it has been checked.

For example if you put the return half of a ticket through the barrier by accident rather than the outward would that make the return invalid?

 

[First class]

If you are referring to Merseyrail, let me know and I will PM you. We've got things a bit "strange" at the moment.

Usually it does write to the ticket to say it is used.

If you put the wrong part in, it is SUPPOSED to reject, but wouldn't write to it.

 

[Arriva 175]

The ticket barriers only read the information on the ticket barcode and dont alter the tickets.

If the final destination on the return ticket was the same as the station containing the origin barrier and it was placed into the exit side it will swallow the ticket unless it contains the word stations on the ticket, eg "Liverpool stations". In this case the ticket will be returned.

Also if the same ticket is used twice in the last 60mins the barrier will remember the information and refuse to accept it. This is supposed to elimate more than one person using the same ticket.

Hope the above helps.

 

[nedchester]

If you are referring to Merseyrail, let me know and I will PM you. We've got things a bit "strange" at the moment.

Usually it does write to the ticket to say it is used.

If you put the wrong part in, it is SUPPOSED to reject, but wouldn't write to it.

Not Merseyrail in particular. Just thought that if I got a Capenhurst (to use my local station) to London, went out of the barrier at Chester to go to the paper shop and then came back in the barrier on my way to London and accidentally put the return half in the slot then surely it wouldn't reject the ticket but just think I was coming back to Capenhurst from London??

I'm not normally going to do that but plenty of passengers would and genuinely by accident.

 

[tony_mac]

We have had information from a guard here saying that he swiped tickets on his machine to see which barrier(s) they had been used in.

Just because it was swiped doesn't mean it was used (as your example) but I guess it might require some explanation (which may not be believed).

There are notices at Blackpool North saying something like 'Don't go through the barrier unless you are travelling as you won't be able to use your ticket again'.

 

[Arriva 175]

Not Merseyrail in particular. Just thought that if I got a Capenhurst (to use my local station) to London, went out of the barrier at Chester to go to the paper shop and then came back in the barrier on my way to London and accidentally put the return half in the slot then surely it wouldn't reject the ticket but just think I was coming back to Capenhurst from London??

The barriers at Chester will open if the return portion was vaild for that date as ticket barriers allow for a break of journey. If not then just show out portion to revenue staff who will let you back onto platforms.

 

[Mike395]

If the final destination on the return ticket was the same as the station containing the origin barrier and it was placed into the exit side it will swallow the ticket unless it contains the word stations on the ticket, eg "Liverpool stations". In this case the ticket will be returned.

Not always - Bedford's barriers always swallow my 'Bedford Stations' ticket on exit, even though they are valid to Bedford St Johns

 

[island]

Almost all of the time they will write the NLC, date, and time that the ticket went through the barrier. Otherwise tickets could be passed back and used multiple times.

 

[First class]

The ticket barriers only read the information on the ticket barcode and dont alter the tickets.

If the final destination on the return ticket was the same as the station containing the origin barrier and it was placed into the exit side it will swallow the ticket unless it contains the word stations on the ticket, eg "Liverpool stations". In this case the ticket will be returned.

Also if the same ticket is used twice in the last 60mins the barrier will remember the information and refuse to accept it. This is supposed to elimate more than one person using the same ticket.

Hope the above helps.

As I consider myself to be somewhat of a "pro" in ATGs, (I create the data for them to implement), I can assure you that the ATGs will write to the ticket.

A code 07 for a ticket is a Write Failure code, for when the ATG is unable to write, but can read.

The "passback" time is set by each TOC, 60mins is a little too long IMO. I have set it at a fraction of that. Passbacks only occur generally within seconds of each other, a mate passing his ticket back. 60 mins is excessive. The error code for a passback is typically 133, but can be customised to something different, which I have set to 555 on Merseyrail ATGs.

As for what it writes on the ticket:

1) NLC where the ATGs are
2) Whether the gates were operating normally or in emergency
3) The time & date

If you then put a "used" ticket into a STAR Machine to read the data, it would tell you the above, as well as other things that the ATGs don't write.

 

[nedchester]

As I consider myself to be somewhat of a "pro" in ATGs, (I create the data for them to implement), I can assure you that the ATGs will write to the ticket.

A code 07 for a ticket is a Write Failure code, for when the ATG is unable to write, but can read.

The "passback" time is set by each TOC, 60mins is a little too long IMO. I have set it at a fraction of that. Passbacks only occur generally within seconds of each other, a mate passing his ticket back. 60 mins is excessive. The error code for a passback is typically 133, but can be customised to something different, which I have set to 555 on Merseyrail ATGs.

As for what it writes on the ticket:

1) NLC where the ATGs are
2) Whether the gates were operating normally or in emergency
3) The time & date

If you then put a "used" ticket into a STAR Machine to read the data, it would tell you the above, as well as other things that the ATGs don't write.

This has turned out to be very interesting. Didn't know that different gates would / could be set differently?

 

[Arriva 175]

The "passback" time is set by each TOC, 60mins is a little too long IMO. I have set it at a fraction of that. Passbacks only occur generally within seconds of each other, a mate passing his ticket back. 60 mins is excessive.

You could be correct with that, its been 2 years since i last worked on the ticket barriers. 30 mins is probably more apt.

 

[radamfi]

As I consider myself to be somewhat of a "pro" in ATGs, (I create the data for them to implement), I can assure you that the ATGs will write to the ticket.

A code 07 for a ticket is a Write Failure code, for when the ATG is unable to write, but can read.

The "passback" time is set by each TOC, 60mins is a little too long IMO. I have set it at a fraction of that. Passbacks only occur generally within seconds of each other, a mate passing his ticket back. 60 mins is excessive. The error code for a passback is typically 133, but can be customised to something different, which I have set to 555 on Merseyrail ATGs.

As for what it writes on the ticket:

1) NLC where the ATGs are
2) Whether the gates were operating normally or in emergency
3) The time & date

If you then put a "used" ticket into a STAR Machine to read the data, it would tell you the above, as well as other things that the ATGs don't write.

Presumably there is only limited capacity on the ticket so how does it cope writing the locations of all stations where the ticket has been written to if the journey has been broken at several places and the ticket has been put in the barriers at each place?

 

[Deerfold]

Presumably there is only limited capacity on the ticket so how does it cope writing the locations of all stations where the ticket has been written to if the journey has been broken at several places and the ticket has been put in the barriers at each place?

I'm sure our friend above will expand but my understanding is only the most recent barrier information is on the ticket.

I find the passback time to be about 20 minutes at Leeds which is annoying as I'm usually just getting a sandwich or magazine.

 

[island]

It only stores the last time the ticket went through a gate, unless I'm mistaken.

 

[142094]

Not always - Bedford's barriers always swallow my 'Bedford Stations' ticket on exit, even though they are valid to Bedford St Johns

Was going to point out that too - there are many stations which will happily allow you to recover the ticket after it has passed through the gate. IIRC there is some sort of option in the software to allow this, although passengers don't actually have the right to retain the ticket in any case.

 

[317 forever]

The ticket barriers only read the information on the ticket barcode and dont alter the tickets.

If the final destination on the return ticket was the same as the station containing the origin barrier and it was placed into the exit side it will swallow the ticket unless it contains the word stations on the ticket, eg "Liverpool stations". In this case the ticket will be returned.

Also if the same ticket is used twice in the last 60mins the barrier will remember the information and refuse to accept it. This is supposed to elimate more than one person using the same ticket.

Hope the above helps.

In 2000 I entered East Croydon station with a London Travelcard. As no train of interest came I changed my mind and decided to exit the station and find a bus (or tram) of more immediate interest. My Travelcard was returned but the gate did not open and the message "Seek Assistance" was displayed.

 

[jsmith300]

Guessing the Underground gates do the same thing which is why you can't enter more than once on a Maltese Cross ticket

 

[317 forever]

Guessing the Underground gates do the same thing which is why you can't enter more than once on a Maltese Cross ticket

You might well be right. Last year I travelled from Shepherd's Bush (Central Line) to White City, and the barrier at White City rejected my one-day Travelcard. Maybe I was trying to leave the Underground too soon!!:roll:

 

[lyesbkz]

In 2000 I entered East Croydon station with a London Travelcard. As no train of interest came I changed my mind and decided to exit the station and find a bus (or tram) of more immediate interest. My Travelcard was returned but the gate did not open and the message "Seek Assistance" was displayed.

This is incredibly annoying, I find that then when I try to enter another station after being manually let out through the barrier I again get 'Seek Assistance' presumably because the system thinks I haven't 'exited' the network yet and am still supposed to be inside it?

 

[Mike395]

This is incredibly annoying, I find that then when I try to enter another station after being manually let out through the barrier I again get 'Seek Assistance' presumably because the system thinks I haven't 'exited' the network yet and am still supposed to be inside it?

Correct It's to stop multiple people using the same ticket, but I agree it should be confined to the station that the entry was recorded at!