Avanti and XC Salaries

[lammergeier]

I suspect it is my misunderstanding when I’ve had an XC road learner with me... but if it’s often quoted on here I’m not the only one to misunderstand!

Oh I know you're not the only one, I hear it all the time and if I have road learners with me (ahh the good old days) they often ask if it's right. Even some XC drivers believe it as they don't understand the 11 hours booking off rule, it's not quite as simple as at other TOCs where booking on times dictate the limits.

It's the same as "XC only employ DTM's or instructors from other companies as qualified drivers" and "XC have a week of blank shifts where they can move your rest days and allocate whatever they like to you." Hear it all the time

 

[whoosh]

Indeed it is, repeated often on here.

You cannot be moved so you book off more than 11 hours after your original spare booking on time. Where this movement of 12 hours either way comes from I've got no idea.

You won't be brought in 12 hours early either as that messes with various rules in DRI surrounding rest. I think in many years at XC the most I've been moved is about 4 hours.

Thankyou for clarifying that. I had also heard that rumour.
I'd love all the T&Cs for all the TOCs to be put on the ASLEF site (even if you had to sign into a members section), as there's a lot of misunderstanding and rumour, and also it would be good to see what could be acceptable ground-giving for higher pay, and what is unthinkable to have been sold off. I think we'd all be wiser and us as members (and our reps) wouldn't be living in a bubble. In the past myself and colleagues were often told, "We're not the best paid, but we have the best conditions."
Not true, as I found out when I moved TOCs and got mostly better conditions and better pay!

There's the odd detail here and there at the moment with the pay information on the ASLEF website, but it's not consistent on all the TOC pages.

 

[Economist]

I'd love all the T&Cs for all the TOCs to be put on the ASLEF site (even if you had to sign into a members section), as there's a lot of misunderstanding and rumour, and also it would be good to see what could be acceptable ground-giving for higher pay, and what is unthinkable to have been sold off. I think we'd all be wiser and us as members (and our reps) wouldn't be living in a bubble.

I totally agree with this, there does need to be much more clarity on terms and conditions. The ASLEF Company Information website is often out of date as it is, I mean Avanti is still listed as "Virgin West Coast" and SWR still shows the pre-deal situation. They updated everything at the same time last October but nothing since then, there needs to be real-time updating with more detail, even if it's for members only. It'd boost competition between TOCs as well, which is never a bad thing.

 

[hello]

Oh I know you're not the only one, I hear it all the time and if I have road learners with me (ahh the good old days) they often ask if it's right. Even some XC drivers believe it as they don't understand the 11 hours booking off rule, it's not quite as simple as at other TOCs where booking on times dictate the limits.

It's the same as "XC only employ DTM's or instructors from other companies as qualified drivers" and "XC have a week of blank shifts where they can move your rest days and allocate whatever they like to you." Hear it all the time

So if you are 2000 spare, can you be moved back to 0001, if you are annual leave the day before? As I assume if you book on at 0001 you won’t be booking off 11 hours after 2000

 

[Evolution]

I find it absolutely bizarre that people would be put off changing employer because of a condition that they have either misunderstood or got completely wrong without even bothering to research it.

I'm just going by what a driver who had apparently interviewed at XC said. Guessing he misunderstood then. I know it's the case at LNER (and perhaps Avanti?) as I've spoken to a driver when route learning who told me so.

It isn't just that but the 02.58 am starts at some depots aren't desirable either. Especially when we only have a few that start before 6am and usually they are 5am onwards.

 

[lammergeier]

I

I'm just going by what a driver who had apparently interviewed at XC said. Guessing he misunderstood then. I know it's the case at LNER (and perhaps Avanti?) as I've spoken to a driver when route learning who told me so.

It isn't just that but the 02.58 am starts at some depots aren't desirable either. Especially when we only have a few that start before 6am and usually they are 5am onwards.

I can sort of understand that as some of our earlies are very early and don't suit everyone.

 

[lammergeier]

So if you are 2000 spare, can you be moved back to 0001, if you are annual leave the day before? As I assume if you book on at 0001 you won’t be booking off 11 hours after 2000

I'm not sure how that could occur as we have rules surrounding rest between shifts where rest days intervene.

It could only really happen after a long weekend or week of rest days but then we generally come back to a booked job. But since closest spare gets the job a whopping move like that implies there is no other spare cover so in practise they'll use a rest day worker to cover the open turn and leave the spare for afternoon cover.

 

[donpoku]

Indeed it is, repeated often on here.

You cannot be moved so you book off more than 11 hours after your original spare booking on time. Where this movement of 12 hours either way comes from I've got no idea.

You won't be brought in 12 hours early either as that messes with various rules in DRI surrounding rest. I think in many years at XC the most I've been moved is about 4 hours.

This is still confusing, are you saying no matter you book on time for spare you have to book off 11rs after and they cannot ask you to come earlier than your book on time?

 

[tiptoptaff]

This is still confusing, are you saying no matter you book on time for spare you have to book off 11rs after and they cannot ask you to come earlier than your book on time?

AIUI, if you were 1400-2200 spare, you couldn't be move to finish later than 0100, 11hrs after original book on time of 1400, but they could in theory bring you in as early as they like, subject to hidden regs. But in practice they won't bring you in massively early, they'll use RDW to cover instead and leave you spare 1400-2200.

In the morning example, 0600-1400, you can be moved to finish no later than 1700, 11hrs after original start time of 0600, and earliest start could be 0001, as that would be the earliest possible start time on any given day.

 

[baz962]

AIUI, if you were 1400-2200 spare, you couldn't be move to finish later than 0100, 11hrs after original book on time of 1400, but they could in theory bring you in as early as they like, subject to hidden regs. But in practice they won't bring you in massively early, they'll use RDW to cover instead and leave you spare 1400-2200.

In the morning example, 0600-1400, you can be moved to finish no later than 1700, 11hrs after original start time of 0600, and earliest start could be 0001, as that would be the earliest possible start time on any given day.

Seems like a convaluted way of saying they can start you three hour's later than the original start time , so you finish three hour's later than the original finish time .

 

[tiptoptaff]

Seems like a convaluted way of saying they can start you three hour's later than the original start time , so you finish three hour's later than the original finish time .

Not quite, depends on the length of the job