Avanti Class 221s to Cross Country

[Liam L]

Tomorrow I believe is the last day of 221s for Avanti.
Are we aware of which nine will join those that have already gone to CrossCountry yet?

Saturday is planned last day. I've attached the diagram

 

[duffield]

Only the initial 7 units were agreed by DfT to replace the HSTs, but they are now getting 12. But surely XC cannot fail to make visible capacity improvements with 12 units, given that they hardly ever used more than 2 or 3 HSTs, and their network is still smaller than it was a few years ago?

I'm sceptical as to whether XC have enough train crew. I know most of the current cancellations are due to driver shortages and doubling up Voyagers obviously doesn't need an extra driver, but I've also seen some cancellations and some rear units locked out due to lack of other train crew - so have they really got the extra crew to cover all the extra units, given they require at least one train crew member in each unit when doubled up?

Also, they're supposed to be reinstating some Newcastle/York->Reading services, and those will need more drivers which they don't appear to have at present.

So while the extra units are one very necessary step towards reducing the worst of the overcrowding, I'm not convinced the other pieces of the puzzle are in place.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Probably time to say that I think the Voyagers have done splendidly on the London-Chester-North Wales services.
From 3 Holyhead HSTs a day in the 90s (using about the lowest quality of HST you could get, bouncing away at 110mph on the poor WCML track), they went to 5 Voyagers a day to Holyhead in 2003 and an hourly service to Chester in 2008 (and a Wrexham service).
The regular Chester time was 2h02m from Euston, not bettered by 805.
No other train could have increased services and speeds to the same extent on the route.
We are still waiting for the 2019 timetable to be reinstated, however, even with the uplift this weekend.
The route has also suffered from early cancellations or truncation whenever the WCML is sickly, which is often.

The 805s have nice and better interiors but have not yet proved themselves dynamically on the WCML - we still await the MU speed profile and some 125mph.
There also seem persistent problems with multiple unit working - attaching and dividing 221s, often at Chester, seemed painless.
I would rate the ride quality of Avanti trains as 1st: 390, 2nd: 221, 3rd 80x.
So I thank Virgin Trains (initially) for deploying the Voyagers for 20 years to Chester and North Wales.

 

[irish_rail]

Always found the Voyagers under Avanti an absolute pleasure. Far superior to the claustrophobic, nauseating Pendolinos. Hopefully XC can keep them in a semi decent state now like Avanti did.

 

[modernrail]

Probably time to say that I think the Voyagers have done splendidly on the London-Chester-North Wales services.
From 3 Holyhead HSTs a day in the 90s (using about the lowest quality of HST you could get, bouncing away at 110mph on the poor WCML track), they went to 5 Voyagers a day to Holyhead in 2003 and an hourly service to Chester in 2008 (and a Wrexham service).
The regular Chester time was 2h02m from Euston, not bettered by 805.
No other train could have increased services and speeds to the same extent on the route.
We are still waiting for the 2019 timetable to be reinstated, however, even with the uplift this weekend.
The route has also suffered from early cancellations or truncation whenever the WCML is sickly, which is often.

The 805s have nice and better interiors but have not yet proved themselves dynamically on the WCML - we still await the MU speed profile and some 125mph.
There also seem persistent problems with multiple unit working - attaching and dividing 221s, often at Chester, seemed painless.
I would rate the ride quality of Avanti trains as 1st: 390, 2nd: 221, 3rd 80x.
So I thank Virgin Trains (initially) for deploying the Voyagers for 20 years to Chester and North Wales.

Yes I had many a beautiful morning journey back to London after seeing my parents in Anglesey when they retired there from Liverpool.

Coach D on the morning service sitting sea side was a delight.

Funny how a train can feel quite different depending on the context. The sight of a Cross Country version turning up fills me with dread - I am not sure I have ever had anything better than a tolerable journey with that TOC, other than on their HST’s.

 

[Russel]

Yes I had many a beautiful morning journey back to London after seeing my parents in Anglesey when they retired there from Liverpool.

Coach D on the morning service sitting sea side was a delight.

Funny how a train can feel quite different depending on the context. The sight of a Cross Country version turning up fills me with dread - I am not sure I have ever had anything better than a tolerable journey with that TOC, other than on their HST’s.

Avanti or Crosscountry, when you're on a lightly loaded service with a decent window seat with plenty of legroom, I find them a pleasure to travel on.

 

[swt_passenger]

I'm sceptical as to whether XC have enough train crew. I know most of the current cancellations are due to driver shortages and doubling up Voyagers obviously doesn't need an extra driver, but I've also seen some cancellations and some rear units locked out due to lack of other train crew - so have they really got the extra crew to cover all the extra units, given they require at least one train crew member in each unit when doubled up?

You’re right of course, but I guess many people will probably continue to post on the assumption that a lack of rolling stock is the only problem to solve.

 

[adc82140]

If I've worked this out correctly, this means Euston is 100% electric. So it's only Paddington (very limited), Marylebone (lots), Kings X (GC only) and Waterloo (Salisbury/Exeters only) as London termini served by diesel.

Edit: Nope, forgot the 222s at St Pancras

 

[Thirteen]

If I've worked this out correctly, this means Euston is 100% electric. So it's only Paddington (very limited), Marylebone (lots), Kings X (GC only) and Waterloo (Salisbury/Exeters only) as London termini served by diesel.

Edit: Nope, forgot the 222s at St Pancras

Once the 810s are in service, St Pancras will become electric only in due course.

 

[CHAPS2034]

Avanti or Crosscountry, when you're on a lightly loaded service with a decent window seat with plenty of legroom, I find them a pleasure to travel on.

Cross Country lightly loaded? Must be a rare experience!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

If I've worked this out correctly, this means Euston is 100% electric.

Temporarily, if the rumours of Lumo nabbing the 222s for the entirely-electrified route to Stirling come into fruition.

 

[Russel]

Cross Country lightly loaded? Must be a rare experience!

Very!

 

[Kite159]

If I've worked this out correctly, this means Euston is 100% electric. So it's only Paddington (very limited), Marylebone (lots), Kings X (GC only) and Waterloo (Salisbury/Exeters only) as London termini served by diesel.

Edit: Nope, forgot the 222s at St Pancras

And London Bridge served by the Southern 171s on Uckfield services.

I might give that Holyhead service a spin in the morning for a mini farewell to the tilting voyagers, considering the Tilt is isolated/removed on XC.

 

[TheWalrus]

I have heard from a couple of people that 2 additional 221s will be joining GC from the ex-Avanti fleet - is anyone able to comment on this?

 

[Harpo]

If I've worked this out correctly, this means Euston is 100% electric. So it's only Paddington (very limited), Marylebone (lots), Kings X (GC only) and Waterloo (Salisbury/Exeters only) as London termini served by diesel.

Edit: Nope, forgot the 222s at St Pancras

London Bridge - Uckfield.

Triple 755s at Liv St? Does the middle unit run in diesel mode?

 

[DaveyJones]

221105/221106 Look to be the last Voyagers to work for Avanti

 

[43096]

Triple 755s at Liv St? Does the middle unit run in diesel mode?

Only if there is a pantograph issue on one of the outer units and there is too little space between the pantographs. In that case one unit will run in diesel, otherwise they run as electric.

 

[D365]

I have heard from a couple of people that 2 additional 221s will be joining GC from the ex-Avanti fleet - is anyone able to comment on this?

The Class 221 for Grand Central discussion is linked here.

 

[vuzzeho]

Saturday is planned last day. I've attached the diagram

I don’t know if it’s nostalgia, but I‘ll be sad to see them go. A big part of my childhood… gone. And they were nice. Let’s hope XC takes care of them.

 

[parallelepiped]

I'm sceptical as to whether XC have enough train crew. I know most of the current cancellations are due to driver shortages and doubling up Voyagers obviously doesn't need an extra driver, but I've also seen some cancellations and some rear units locked out due to lack of other train crew - so have they really got the extra crew to cover all the extra units, given they require at least one train crew member in each unit when doubled up?

Also, they're supposed to be reinstating some Newcastle/York->Reading services, and those will need more drivers which they don't appear to have at present.

So while the extra units are one very necessary step towards reducing the worst of the overcrowding, I'm not convinced the other pieces of the puzzle are in place.

Why does crosscountry need staff in each unit when other operators don't seem to? Could they relax this policy?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Looks like they finished on Avanti today quietly and without any fanfare.

 

[dk1]

Why does crosscountry need staff in each unit when other operators don't seem to? Could they relax this policy?

That would be down to RMT/ASLEF so we all know where that could lead.

 

[DBS92042]

Looks like they finished on Avanti today quietly and without any fanfare.

In the platform announcement made as 9G38 was approaching MKC, it was mentioned that that was the last run for the Avanti voyagers and they were going off lease after Saturday

 

[Kite159]

And the TM on the Holyhead train mentioned that it was the final service to Holyhead formed of the voyagers as from tomorrow they will all be run with the newer Hitachi units.

Although I'm sure they are looking forward to not having to lock the rear unit out of use from Chester if calling at Flint.

 

[bnsf734]

I was on the final working into Birmingham New Street (221105 & 221106 on 9G38 1816 Euston - Birmingham New Street) and the (same?) train manager announced that this was their final working with Avanti - finished off by saying "Some may think that's a good thing...."

It will be interesting to see where they turn up next... and how long before they are back in traffic with a new operator.

End of one era and start of a new one.

 

[D365]

It’s quite something to see Avanti having completed their fleet replacement before the first EMR 810 is even in passenger service. This is despite the 810s having been ordered first.

 

[Russel]

And the TM on the Holyhead train mentioned that it was the final service to Holyhead formed of the voyagers as from tomorrow they will all be run with the newer Hitachi units.

Although I'm sure they are looking forward to not having to lock the rear unit out of use from Chester if calling at Flint.

This, I don't understand, I was on an XC double 5+4 voyager last weekend, there was an announcement that the rear first class coach would be locked out of use before one of the stations as the train was too long... I can't remember which station, but why couldn't Avanti do this?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It’s quite something to see Avanti having completed their fleet replacement before the first EMR 810 is even in passenger service. This is despite the 810s having been ordered first.

There are still some 807s to arrive with Avanti.
But the 221 cascade is done, yes.

 

[dk1]

It’s quite something to see Avanti having completed their fleet replacement before the first EMR 810 is even in passenger service. This is despite the 810s having been ordered first.

Haven't they had to start all testing from scratch with the 810s though? They are not the same as the other 800 units across the UK.

 

[Russel]

Haven't they had to start all testing from scratch with the 810s though? They are not the same as the other 800 units across the UK.

Makes you think, the whole thing would have been cheaper and quicker if EMR just ordered 800/802s!