Liam L
Established Member
Saturday is planned last day. I've attached the diagramTomorrow I believe is the last day of 221s for Avanti.
Are we aware of which nine will join those that have already gone to CrossCountry yet?

Saturday is planned last day. I've attached the diagramTomorrow I believe is the last day of 221s for Avanti.
Are we aware of which nine will join those that have already gone to CrossCountry yet?
I'm sceptical as to whether XC have enough train crew. I know most of the current cancellations are due to driver shortages and doubling up Voyagers obviously doesn't need an extra driver, but I've also seen some cancellations and some rear units locked out due to lack of other train crew - so have they really got the extra crew to cover all the extra units, given they require at least one train crew member in each unit when doubled up?Only the initial 7 units were agreed by DfT to replace the HSTs, but they are now getting 12. But surely XC cannot fail to make visible capacity improvements with 12 units, given that they hardly ever used more than 2 or 3 HSTs, and their network is still smaller than it was a few years ago?
Yes I had many a beautiful morning journey back to London after seeing my parents in Anglesey when they retired there from Liverpool.Probably time to say that I think the Voyagers have done splendidly on the London-Chester-North Wales services.
From 3 Holyhead HSTs a day in the 90s (using about the lowest quality of HST you could get, bouncing away at 110mph on the poor WCML track), they went to 5 Voyagers a day to Holyhead in 2003 and an hourly service to Chester in 2008 (and a Wrexham service).
The regular Chester time was 2h02m from Euston, not bettered by 805.
No other train could have increased services and speeds to the same extent on the route.
We are still waiting for the 2019 timetable to be reinstated, however, even with the uplift this weekend.
The route has also suffered from early cancellations or truncation whenever the WCML is sickly, which is often.
The 805s have nice and better interiors but have not yet proved themselves dynamically on the WCML - we still await the MU speed profile and some 125mph.
There also seem persistent problems with multiple unit working - attaching and dividing 221s, often at Chester, seemed painless.
I would rate the ride quality of Avanti trains as 1st: 390, 2nd: 221, 3rd 80x.
So I thank Virgin Trains (initially) for deploying the Voyagers for 20 years to Chester and North Wales.
Yes I had many a beautiful morning journey back to London after seeing my parents in Anglesey when they retired there from Liverpool.
Coach D on the morning service sitting sea side was a delight.
Funny how a train can feel quite different depending on the context. The sight of a Cross Country version turning up fills me with dread - I am not sure I have ever had anything better than a tolerable journey with that TOC, other than on their HST’s.
You’re right of course, but I guess many people will probably continue to post on the assumption that a lack of rolling stock is the only problem to solve.I'm sceptical as to whether XC have enough train crew. I know most of the current cancellations are due to driver shortages and doubling up Voyagers obviously doesn't need an extra driver, but I've also seen some cancellations and some rear units locked out due to lack of other train crew - so have they really got the extra crew to cover all the extra units, given they require at least one train crew member in each unit when doubled up?
Once the 810s are in service, St Pancras will become electric only in due course.If I've worked this out correctly, this means Euston is 100% electric. So it's only Paddington (very limited), Marylebone (lots), Kings X (GC only) and Waterloo (Salisbury/Exeters only) as London termini served by diesel.
Edit: Nope, forgot the 222s at St Pancras
Avanti or Crosscountry, when you're on a lightly loaded service with a decent window seat with plenty of legroom, I find them a pleasure to travel on.
Temporarily, if the rumours of Lumo nabbing the 222s for the entirely-electrified route to Stirling come into fruition.If I've worked this out correctly, this means Euston is 100% electric.
Cross Country lightly loaded? Must be a rare experience!
And London Bridge served by the Southern 171s on Uckfield services.If I've worked this out correctly, this means Euston is 100% electric. So it's only Paddington (very limited), Marylebone (lots), Kings X (GC only) and Waterloo (Salisbury/Exeters only) as London termini served by diesel.
Edit: Nope, forgot the 222s at St Pancras
London Bridge - Uckfield.If I've worked this out correctly, this means Euston is 100% electric. So it's only Paddington (very limited), Marylebone (lots), Kings X (GC only) and Waterloo (Salisbury/Exeters only) as London termini served by diesel.
Edit: Nope, forgot the 222s at St Pancras
Only if there is a pantograph issue on one of the outer units and there is too little space between the pantographs. In that case one unit will run in diesel, otherwise they run as electric.Triple 755s at Liv St? Does the middle unit run in diesel mode?
I don’t know if it’s nostalgia, but I‘ll be sad to see them go. A big part of my childhood… gone. And they were nice. Let’s hope XC takes care of them.Saturday is planned last day. I've attached the diagram![]()
Why does crosscountry need staff in each unit when other operators don't seem to? Could they relax this policy?I'm sceptical as to whether XC have enough train crew. I know most of the current cancellations are due to driver shortages and doubling up Voyagers obviously doesn't need an extra driver, but I've also seen some cancellations and some rear units locked out due to lack of other train crew - so have they really got the extra crew to cover all the extra units, given they require at least one train crew member in each unit when doubled up?
Also, they're supposed to be reinstating some Newcastle/York->Reading services, and those will need more drivers which they don't appear to have at present.
So while the extra units are one very necessary step towards reducing the worst of the overcrowding, I'm not convinced the other pieces of the puzzle are in place.
Why does crosscountry need staff in each unit when other operators don't seem to? Could they relax this policy?
In the platform announcement made as 9G38 was approaching MKC, it was mentioned that that was the last run for the Avanti voyagers and they were going off lease after SaturdayLooks like they finished on Avanti today quietly and without any fanfare.
And the TM on the Holyhead train mentioned that it was the final service to Holyhead formed of the voyagers as from tomorrow they will all be run with the newer Hitachi units.
Although I'm sure they are looking forward to not having to lock the rear unit out of use from Chester if calling at Flint.
There are still some 807s to arrive with Avanti.It’s quite something to see Avanti having completed their fleet replacement before the first EMR 810 is even in passenger service. This is despite the 810s having been ordered first.
Haven't they had to start all testing from scratch with the 810s though? They are not the same as the other 800 units across the UK.It’s quite something to see Avanti having completed their fleet replacement before the first EMR 810 is even in passenger service. This is despite the 810s having been ordered first.
Haven't they had to start all testing from scratch with the 810s though? They are not the same as the other 800 units across the UK.