Avanti West Coast New Stock - Hitachi chosen

[XCTurbostar]

Wow, that was surprisingly quick - less than a year since the ink on the contract even dried!

Has it been confirmed whether these are standard AT300 frames or the shorter Mk2s like EMR are using? If it’s the first, there’s a good chance the production line probably just continued on after the previous orders.

 

[samuelmorris]

I believe it's the former.

 

[Cletus]

Another plain white livery - that will make some unhappy

 

[popeter45]

Another plain white livery - that will make some unhappy

where does it say it will be white?, thats a protective tarpaulin in the picture

 

[Cletus]

where does it say it will be white?, thats a protective tarpaulin in the picture

I know. I was joking.

 

[RailWonderer]

Why have Avanti ordered 10 more EMUs? With HS2, the plan is to reduce frequency of legacy IC services, not increase it, going by the proposition posted earlier in one of the HS2 threads.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Why have Avanti ordered 10 more EMUs? With HS2, the plan is to reduce frequency of legacy IC services, not increase it, going by the proposition posted earlier in one of the HS2 threads.

It's a good question, and one whoever is owning the stock will no doubt have considered carefully. But it will be 8 years before HS2 is up and running, and even then only to OOC for a couple of years. I'm sure we don't want to wait 10 years for any additional stock on the route.

One HS2 is up and running the 390s will be nearly 30 years old, and probably up for retirement as they are replaced by HS2 stock, whereas relatively new EMUs will probably easily find an alternative use.

 

[samuelmorris]

HS2 still has a large amount of opposition to being completed at all and is also at not insubstantial risk of further delay - it's entirely possible that the full pattern of HS2 that allows intercity services along the legacy WCML to be reduced may not come into effect until 2040. Certainly Avanti's current franchise agreement does not reach the Phase 2 opening date even if it's on time. There should be use for the units for the full duration of the franchise and most likely even if it's extended. Let's not think about the possibility of it going OLR before then

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why have Avanti ordered 10 more EMUs? With HS2, the plan is to reduce frequency of legacy IC services, not increase it, going by the proposition posted earlier in one of the HS2 threads.

Because HS2 is years off, and (at least pre COVID) improvements were needed now, requiring more units. It's also to stop operating diesels under the wires which is absolutely a good reason to invest.

One HS2 is up and running the 390s will be nearly 30 years old, and probably up for retirement as they are replaced by HS2 stock, whereas relatively new EMUs will probably easily find an alternative use.

Particularly as they're 80x so would fit straight in at any of the existing 80x operators. If you're going to question an EMU order, the one to question is TPE's CAF microfleet.

 

[RailWonderer]

Because HS2 is years off, and (at least pre COVID) improvements were needed now, requiring more units. It's also to stop operating diesels under the wires which is absolutely a good reason to invest.

I understand that, but isn't that what the 13 class 807 bi modes are for? Even if demand does rise in the next 8 years, there are no paths south of Rugby and very few if any northwards to use the 10 class 807s on.

 

[mmh]

I understand that, but isn't that what the 13 class 807 bi modes are for? Even if demand does rise in the next 8 years, there are no paths south of Rugby and very few if any northwards to use the 10 class 807s on.

It's said that the 80x EMUs will run London to Liverpool, freeing 390s to replace Voyagers on Scotland services, meaning the bi-modes can sensibly be dedicated to non electrified routes.

 

[popeter45]

It's said that the 80x EMUs will run London to Liverpool, freeing 390s to replace Voyagers on Scotland services, meaning the bi-modes can sensibly be dedicated to non electrified routes.

yea to me the 80x#'s feel more a Voyager replacement program instead of a Pendolino replacement

so prob will be as followed

class 390's to Edinburgh and Glasgow with eventual replacement with HS2 rolling stock
class 807's to Liverpool,Manchester,Birmingham,Blackpool and other midland /north west electrified routes to replace class 221's
class 805's to Chester,Holyhead,Wrexham,Shresbury and other unelectrified routes again replacing 221's

 

[Bletchleyite]

I understand that, but isn't that what the 13 class 807 bi modes are for? Even if demand does rise in the next 8 years, there are no paths south of Rugby and very few if any northwards to use the 10 class 807s on.

The bi-modes are for North Wales (though as per the Voyagers I suspect they'll see use elsewhere, I think I heard mention of quieter Birmingham services, with 390s doing all Scottish runs). The EMUs are for a second TPH to Liverpool calling at South Parkway (hence 7 car). The paths do exist.

The 80x will not operate to Manchester.

 

[Nym]

The 80x will not operate to Manchester.

Oh good, less chance of having to ride on one.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

23xAT300s replace 21 Voyagers.
Not a great increase (though capacity will be increased).
There is some sort of additional Liverpool service calling at Parkway to cover, and extensions in North Wales.

 

[gka472l]

It's said that the 80x EMUs will run London to Liverpool, freeing 390s to replace Voyagers on Scotland services, meaning the bi-modes can sensibly be dedicated to non electrified routes.

The 807's on the Liverpool is to allow the Liverpool's to go to 2 an hour, 390's will also work to Liverpool as now....

 

[Chester1]

The 807's on the Liverpool is to allow the Liverpool's to go to 2 an hour, 390's will also work to Liverpool as now....

Does that mean some 807s will run on London-Birmingam-Scotland services replacing Voyagers?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oh good, less chance of having to ride on one.

They'll have different seats from the usual (and the same seats will be in the Pendolinos) so I'm not sure what there is to choose between them. If anything the 80x would have an edge for me due to larger windows.

 

[43096]

Does that mean some 807s will run on London-Birmingam-Scotland services replacing Voyagers?

I don't think that is the plan. All Anglo-Scots go over to 390s, with 807s only being used south of Preston (Blackpool?) to free up 390s to remove existing Voyager diagrams to Scotland.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does that mean some 807s will run on London-Birmingam-Scotland services replacing Voyagers?

I don't think there is the intention of 80x going to Scotland, though I recall the intention was to use 5-car sets (which have far more capacity than a 5-car Voyager due to longer vehicles and a more efficient layout) on quiet Euston-Brum turns.

 

[Nym]

They'll have different seats from the usual (and the same seats will be in the Pendolinos) so I'm not sure what there is to choose between them. If anything the 80x would have an edge for me due to larger windows.

Depends on if they sod up the lighting on the Class 390s.

 

[swt_passenger]

I don't think there is the intention of 80x going to Scotland, though I recall the intention was to use 5-car sets (which have far more capacity than a 5-car Voyager due to longer vehicles and a more efficient layout) on quiet Euston-Brum turns.

There’s definitely a track access application (Linked somewhere in one of the many earlier threads about Avanti) that states unambiguously that the AT300s will not operate north of Liverpool.

{I’ll see if I can find it...}

 

[mmh]

I don't think there is the intention of 80x going to Scotland, though I recall the intention was to use 5-car sets (which have far more capacity than a 5-car Voyager due to longer vehicles and a more efficient layout) on quiet Euston-Brum turns.

Anything going to Shrewsbury will obviously need to be a bi-mode.

 

[Starmill]

The bi-modes are for North Wales (though as per the Voyagers I suspect they'll see use elsewhere, I think I heard mention of quieter Birmingham services, with 390s doing all Scottish runs). The EMUs are for a second TPH to Liverpool calling at South Parkway (hence 7 car). The paths do exist.

The 80x will not operate to Manchester.

I am not sure that Liverpool South Parkway has anything to do with it? The platforms are only about 130 metres long. Even a 7 car Pendolino would be too long.

Slightly shorter trains for Liverpool services are useful for commercial reasons of course.

 

[mmh]

I am not sure that Liverpool South Parkway has anything to do with it? The platforms are only about 130 metres long. Even a 7 car Pendolino would be too long.

They have SDO.

 

[Domh245]

There’s definitely a track access application (Linked somewhere in one of the many earlier threads about Avanti) that states unambiguously that the AT300s will not operate north of Liverpool.

{I’ll see if I can find it...}

There's a map appeared on the RockRail website for these that suggests they'll make it as far as Blackpool/Lancaster on 'peak' services

 

[py_megapixel]

The 80x will not operate to Manchester.

Oh good, less chance of having to ride on one.

I think I'd actually choose one of these over a Pendolino. After all, they'll have the same seats and I don't like the Pendolinos; they're dark, the windows are very small, and they aren't the nicest ride in my opinion. In contrast the 80x also have a poor ride (but I am willing to put some of that down to the lack of padding in the seats) but are bright and have massive windows.

 

[swt_passenger]

There's a map appeared on the RockRail website for these that suggests they'll make it as far as Blackpool/Lancaster on 'peak' services

I’ve also found “no further than Preston” and “all Euston - Birmingham - Glasgow services will be 390S”, but no luck on a TAA yet. I’m definitely getting a feeling of deja vu regarding this subject though...

 

[The Chimaera]

I’ve also found “no further than Preston” and “all Euston - Birmingham - Glasgow services will be 390S”, but no luck on a TAA yet. I’m definitely getting a feeling of deja vu regarding this subject though...

This would seem to suggest that there will be no more capability to divert via the Glasgow SW route if required then, not even for planned engineering closures.

 

[RailWonderer]

Why does Avanti want to eviscerate the Pendolino by removing the seats to replace them with ironing boards? Those will be the last comfortable IC seats left. Why not take advantage of having trains that were built before ridiculous PRM compliance that demands an overly uncomfortable seat?