DenmarkRail
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GWR, SWR, Greater Anglia, Scotrail, Northern, and more took much longer than 12 months.
At the end of the day, as long as the Virgin brand isn't present, I doubt Avanti care too much
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Avanti West Coast rebrand
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At the end of the day, as long as the Virgin brand isn't present, I doubt Avanti care too much
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Virgin had to debrand the franchise themselves so that's not quite right. Then again, it'd mean that Avanti hasn't cared since day 1 of the franchise
Also as a point of order, it certainly didn't take SWR more than 12 months to sticker up their fleet with their logos, indeed I think they managed to do this quite quickly. The replacement of the stickers is quite comparable to what Avanti has manged, as only two trains have been branded and the rest are in an interim livery - don't let the fact that the pendolinos look a lot more 'proper' in their interim livery than the SWR fleet fool you
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It's a bit of an oddity because (in my view) the "ends only" livery suits the units better than the full one which is a bit too "busy" with vertical elements which don't work if used excessively on something long and thin like a train. And the "full" one is overbranded with that ugly A "device" - which is so typically FirstGroup, they love overbranding everything, it's like they used to stick several copies of the F-in-circle on everything that moved and most things that didn't.
Is there any particular reason Virgin stripped their brand off everything related to the west coast so quickly? When the east coast changed hands it ran around in Virgin branding for a good few weeks and still runs in it's livery. Was that simply because that franchise collapsed rather than ending normally or was it because it was 90% stagecoach and they didn't care so much about getting rid?
Steddenm
Member
Wasn't it something to do with the copyright on the design of both 'Flowing Silk' and 'Virgin Forward' that made them remove it?
The VTEC branding was also a copywritten design and think it is licenced to OLR (operator of last resort, LNER) in order to keep it on the 225 sets.
Please, correct me if I am wrong.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Copyright exists by default on any creative artifact, belonging to the creator unless they assign it somewhere else (contracts of employment usually do this). I guess it was more that Virgin Group were bothered about it.
Fairly easy to remove, all but a couple trains just needed the stickers peeling of them at the end, most other stuff was stationary and could be sorted with a tin of red paint or are consumables in which Virgin were just ordering in unbranded ones towards the end as Virgin branded ones got used up. East coast had a lot to remove, the trains had a lot more than a sticker at the end and Azumas were meant to replace them soon anyway. VTEC was also a more unplanned exit.
Was part of the end of franchise specification with West Coast so they had to de-brand (same with Serco/Abellio Northern etc.) whereas on the East Coast DOR actually bought out VTEC so the franchise technically didn't end in the same way.
"Virgin" as a brand is also sub-licensed by "Virgin trains". Much the same way Liberty Media license the name for Virgin Media. There aren't many (any?) directly controlled Virgin companies that operate directly to the public, it's a maze of licensing. Could be something to do with limiting how much tax certain people pay, but that is all supposition m'lud.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Brand licensing is a very good way to make money with basically no risk (other than damage to said brand) if you've got one strong enough to license. Nothing dodgy about it.
Virgin Rail Group Ltd was (51%) owned by Virgin Group and so was effectively in direct control. East Coast Trains Ltd (I think that was the company) on the other hand was primarily Stagecoach owned with a brand licence - it had more in common with EMT than VTWC.
As Branson has aged, he's naturally been less interested in actually running businesses, which is quite sensible, really.
Triumph
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The only ones left in white now are the following:
005, 010, 013, 020, 131, 135 & 154
RealTrains07
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Been a development today. A photo is making its way around twitter of an Avanti 221 which has had the avanti livery added to the cab ends?
Looks like avanti are making the most out of not needing all the voyagers in service during lockdown?
does anyone know anything about whats happening?
whether the voyagers are getting more than just the cab avanti cab ends?
Original post on Train&PlaneHub twitter:
Looks like avanti are making the most out of not needing all the voyagers in service during lockdown?
does anyone know anything about whats happening?
whether the voyagers are getting more than just the cab avanti cab ends?
Original post on Train&PlaneHub twitter:
Attachments
Chiltern006
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XCTurbostar
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Hmm, I hope they don’t keep those doors, they look horrible. It’s not 221101
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Think '101 has similar doors. They look very like the original treatment from Virgin days.
greatvoyager
Established Member
According to Facebook it’s 221115.
DJH1971
Established Member
A bit of a surprise as I thought there are getting replaced by bi-modes?
Not this week or next though, I would have thought.
greatvoyager
Established Member
And technically the EMR 222s are the same, being reliveried before being replaced.
An unexpected surprise, obviously it's only vinyl but I thought they weren't going to bother giving them a livery as some symbolic gesture that they're being replaced asap.
The logo looks oddly low down, it would have fit perfectly fine being higher up with the triangle slotting between the screen and cab door.
The logo looks oddly low down, it would have fit perfectly fine being higher up with the triangle slotting between the screen and cab door.
Steddenm
Member
Is it me or does the picture only show the cab has been revinyled as it seems to stop just before the first passenger door?
Might just be that they'd only gotten that far when the picture was taken, although the Avanti livery as applied to all bar 2 pendolinos is just the cabs only, so I wouldn't be surprised if that was as far as they went with it
g_m_h_redwood
Member
They're putting in a lot of money and effort into the super voyagers when they're giving them up next year, could this be a sign the expected launch of the 805/807 fleet will be delayed?
greatvoyager
Established Member
This is the full livery, intermediate carriages staying silver.
www.railadvent.co.uk
Avanti West Coast unveils new Class 221 Voyager livery
Avanti West Coast has sent RailAdvent images of the first Class 221 that is currently undergoing work to be placed into Avanti West Coast livery.
www.railadvent.co.uk
Probably staying silver to avoid as much repainting as possible as they will be leaving in a couple years.This is the full livery, intermediate carriages staying silver.
Avanti West Coast unveils new Class 221 Voyager livery
Avanti West Coast has sent RailAdvent images of the first Class 221 that is currently undergoing work to be placed into Avanti West Coast livery.
Don't think so, TPE refurbed the 185s despite them leaving in a couple years at the time. Its only vinyl so not too expensive.
greatvoyager
Established Member
Will 221101 become silver or just stay white on the intermediate carriages, I wonder.
Probably white I would imagine, depends what Beacon Rail Leasing decide to do.
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