Avanti West Coast: Standard Premium

[takno]

Month 1: Here’s a Pullman-quality meal, served with a smile and a large glass of red.
Month 12: Here’s a box of assorted cheeses because the microwaveable curry has run out. Can you take it and kindly vacate coach K, because the chef needs a sit-down.

Sounds like BA to be fair

 

[Trackman]

Are we talking a big catering upgrade here?

I guess, and hence the fabled ‘K bar’ for your booze and drinks needs.
The way it was put across to me they wanted to set the bar a lot higher than any other toc.
Back to standard premium coaches, it was the usual suspects we’ve speculated on before- still up in the air as I say.
Also mentioned the 390 refurbs, but didnt get any info.

 

[Vespa]

I would be happy to pay for a proper 4 course meal with alcoholic drinks and coffees, for the price I would expect attentive service level, not a minimum wage attitude otherwise all the caviar in the world won't cover up a scowl, a brusque but ok attitude if you're lucky.

 

[AlterEgo]

Yeah, there'd be an argument to only offer Standard Premium on the Birmingham services as they're too short for the "frills". Manchester and possibly Liverpool I could see both working.

Birmingham and Wolverhampton has always been seen as a lower service "branch" even since the VWC days. North Wales and Shrewsburys probably won't get a full service either.

 

[ainsworth74]

The way it was put across to me they wanted to set the bar a lot higher than any other toc.

I mean if they're proposing to outdo what ATW and TfW achieved on the loco hauled Cardiff to Holyhead service then I'm all for it! But that's one heck of a bar for them to hit let alone exceed as no-one else comes close other than GWRs Pullman Dining (which are superb but you're paying for what you get)...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Birmingham and Wolverhampton has always been seen as a lower service "branch" even since the VWC days. North Wales and Shrewsburys probably won't get a full service either.

Will be interested to see what is offered on Scotland via Birmingham (rather than the other two Birminghams). That is also typically a secondary service, but it is the one that has the potential to poach from LNER due to the Edinburgh service if they made it cheaper and better than LNER to offset it being slower.

 

[Journeyman]

Will be interested to see what is offered on Scotland via Birmingham (rather than the other two Birminghams). That is also typically a secondary service, but it is the one that has the potential to poach from LNER due to the Edinburgh service if they made it cheaper and better than LNER to offset it being slower.

Certainly if it offered high standards, I'd switch.

 

[Master29]

Sounds like Avanti are going against the run of play with a first class overhauling given the rest of the TOC's seem to be doing the opposite. Good luck to them I say.

 

[py_megapixel]

Sounds like Avanti are going against the run of play with a first class overhauling given the rest of the TOC's seem to be doing the opposite. Good luck to them I say.

The terrible first class on the IEP units is because they were specced on the cheap by the DfT; Avanti don't have that restriction here as they are buying the units a more conventional way.
First class that has been specced by the TOC itself (e.g. Greater Anglia) has generally been decent.

 

[Purple Orange]

I see this as a route to abolishing first class completely. By introducing a Standard Premium aimed at business travellers and standard passengers who are happy to pay for an upgrade, the traditional first class will probably be found to not be as profitable, particularly on the 60-90 min journeys due to mix of lower demand and higher operating costs. When HS2 comes along, ‘Standard’ and ‘Premium’ might get carried forward, but First will become a relic of the past.

 

[Trackman]

It seems an odd time to be developing very premium offerings.

Also asked for a timeline and then mentioned would it coincide with the 390 refurb's (which is going ahead) , but no dice. Wasn't going to probe any further.

 

[williamn]

I think it's exactly the time to develop premium offerings - numbers travelling are likely to be lower for a while, so its time to concentrate on quality of product rather than packing them in.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Month 1: Here’s a Pullman-quality meal, served with a smile and a large glass of red.
Month 12: Here’s a box of assorted cheeses because the microwaveable curry has run out. Can you take it and kindly vacate coach K, because the chef needs a sit-down.

This may sound sad, but I kept samples of the Virgin W.C. snack boxes. At first, they were quite large, a cardboard box printed to look like a wicker hamper but they steadily declined in size, the penultimate one was bulked up only by the inclusion of a (plastic) bottle of mineral water, the very last was the size of the box for 100 postcard-size prints / slightly bigger than a pack of cards,

 

[philosopher]

Birmingham and Wolverhampton has always been seen as a lower service "branch" even since the VWC days. North Wales and Shrewsburys probably won't get a full service either.

I can get there not being a full meal from London to Birmingham, particularly after breakfast. Most trains on this route after breakfast will not align well with mealtimes at any point during the journey. However I do think some sort of complimentary offering should be maintained even if it is only tea / coffee, a cold drink and a snack such as a couple of biscuits.

 

[Scotrail314209]

I can get there not being a full meal from London to Birmingham, particularly after breakfast. Most trains on this route after breakfast will not align well with mealtimes at any point during the journey. However I do think some sort of complimentary offering should be maintained even if it is only tea / coffee, a cold drink and a snack such as a couple of biscuits.

Agreed. It is quite impressive that the crew manage to do a full breakfast service and two drinks rounds between Birmingham and London. To me that service feels more like a faster commuter/regional train.

Imo, that route doesn’t really warrant anything more substantial than maybe sandwiches and snacks off-peak, no other hot meals as there just simply isn’t enough time.

 

[Purple Orange]

Agreed. It is quite impressive that the crew manage to do a full breakfast service and two drinks rounds between Birmingham and London. To me that service feels more like a faster commuter/regional train.

Imo, that route doesn’t really warrant anything more substantial than maybe sandwiches and snacks off-peak, no other hot meals as there just simply isn’t enough time.

With that one in mind, how long should a train service be before meals are considered worthwhile? The current London-Birmingham time is 82 minutes and it won’t be late no until only the Glasgow service is significantly longer than that.

 

[Scotrail314209]

With that one in mind, how long should a train service be before meals are considered worthwhile? The current London-Birmingham time is 82 minutes and it won’t be late no until only the Glasgow service is significantly longer than that.

Imo, anything over 90 minutes or two hours should be deserving of a meal service. Stuff under 90 minutes or two hours can easily be filled with sandwiches and snacks.

 

[Purple Orange]

Imo, anything over 90 minutes or two hours should be deserving of a meal service. Stuff under 90 minutes or two hours can easily be filled with sandwiches and snacks.

And if we took the 90 minute rule as a benchmark, I suspect that is why Standard Premium is being introduced. Avanti probably do not want to be serving meals on their HS2 services, so by introducing a new class on to the 390s now it gives the service time to bed in.

 

[Carlisle]

Avanti probably do not want to be serving meals on their HS2 services, so by introducing a new class on to the 390s now it gives the service time to bed in.

Id be surprised if that level of planning detail on HS2 catering policy has yet been reached.
It comes across far more as building on the thinking behind the Silver Standard concept of around 25 years ago

 

[CHESHIRECAT]

I would be happy to pay for a proper 4 course meal with alcoholic drinks and coffees, for the price I would expect attentive service level, not a minimum wage attitude otherwise all the caviar in the world won't cover up a scowl, a brusque but ok attitude if you're lucky.

they ain't on minimum wage.. basic caterers are on £28k. on Avanti......

 

[Bletchleyite]

they ain't on minimum wage.. basic caterers are on £28k. on Avanti......

They aren't on minimum wage, but things like the Coach K issue has them behaving like people on the minimum wage at times.

 

[Purple Orange]

they ain't on minimum wage.. basic caterers are on £28k. on Avanti......

And we can’t also make the link that people on minimum wage jobs will not provide a good service, or perform to the best of their capabilities.

 

[Trackman]

they ain't on minimum wage.. basic caterers are on £28k. on Avanti......

Is this a Chef or catering staff?

 

[Vespa]

they ain't on minimum wage.. basic caterers are on £28k. on Avanti......

As Bletchlylite said.

Behaving like minimum wage people with an attitude problem in spite of earning above minimum wage.

 

[Purple Orange]

As Bletchlylite said.

Behaving like minimum wage people with an attitude problem in spite of earning above minimum wage.

What do minimum wage people behave like?

 

[CHESHIRECAT]

Is this a Chef or catering staff?

Basic catering staff...chefs and in charge crew on between 30 and 35

 

[Techniquest]

What do minimum wage people behave like?

That's a rabbit hole worth avoiding

In my experience though, even minimum wage people behave better than those on low-wage-but-higher-than-minimum-wage people. The latter I fall into, I'm on higher than minimum but it doesn't always feel like it. You'd sooner find me wearing a top hat and monocle than joining in the conversations and behaviours of my peers!

From the sounds of other members, it sounds like coach K on the West Coast is treated like the back of a classroom, a place to slack off and not do anything productive!

As for the Avanti offer, while it sounds like it will be nice in First Class when it gets refurbished, it also sounds like I'll not afford it so it won't be something I take advantage of. Not that I would anyway, if my bike's up in coach A I don't really fancy a trek from coach J at my destination to pick it up!

 

[Bletchleyite]

What do minimum wage people behave like?

A good many minimum wage staff don't take their job seriously because they aren't being paid enough to do so, this often reflects on e.g. quality of service in chain restaurants.

Id be surprised if that level of planning detail on HS2 catering policy has yet been reached.
It comes across far more as building on the thinking behind the Silver Standard concept of around 25 years ago

It's sort of the complete opposite of Silver Standard - First Class seating without the service, whereas Silver Standard was Standard seating with the service.

In essence it's recreating what Weekend First used to be - First Class seating but nowt else.

 

[Argyle 1980]

Recently I've not paid more than £13 on seatfrog for Penzance-Paddington (even on morning peak service) and that's including refreshments.

Talking of continental standard premium upgrades. Ouigo charge a few euro extra to guarantee a plug socket and 2×2 alignment. Remember I did the same on Izy pre Covid expecting the same, only to have a very pleasant surprise of an old Eurostar Premier class coach for just €5 extra.

 

[Mikey C]

A good many minimum wage staff don't take their job seriously because they aren't being paid enough to do so, this often reflects on e.g. quality of service in chain restaurants.



It's sort of the complete opposite of Silver Standard - First Class seating without the service, whereas Silver Standard was Standard seating with the service.

In essence it's recreating what Weekend First used to be - First Class seating but nowt else.

Which on the Pendolinos, which I find slightly cramped and claustrophobic in Standard, is EXACTLY the way round I'd like it to be

I'm very happy on leisure trips to provide my own food and drink