Avanti West Coast: Standard Premium

[Vespa]

There does't appear to be any decision made on these. Was on a similar train yesterday. The first train manager used one First as First and the other as Standard Premium. With all other coaches standard.

When the train managers changed over. The other said there was no First or Standard premium at all. All standard.

So cue some rather upset passengers who had paid lots of cash for First and those who had already paid to upgrade. Surely they can get their stories right at handover.

Guess the email box will be overloaded with many complaints.

You do get the impression that they make it up as they go along.

I have to say the more I hear about how Avanti is being run, the more I think it's an amateurish organisation that couldn't organise a drinking session in a brewery.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have to say the more I hear about how Avanti is being run, the more I think it's an amateurish organisation that couldn't organise a drinking session in a brewery.

To be fair I have been sure of that from day one, it really is a very poorly run TOC. Bring back Virgin and the talking bogs!

 

[stephens]

To be fair I have been sure of that from day one, it really is a very poorly run TOC. Bring back Virgin and the talking bogs!

Bring back Virgin - yes, definitely. Talking bogs - no thank you.

 

[D6130]

Bring back Virgin - yes, definitely. Talking bogs - no thank you.

With a wee bit of lateral thinking, talking bogs could have been quite useful....like telling you how late your train is running, what all the connections are at the next station stop, See it, say it, sorted, etc.!

 

[chrish2]

I wonder what would happen to anyone already holding a Standard Premium ticket, given it's either Standard Class or First Class on a Super Voyager?

I don't know what the seat count difference is but if I was a pre booked SP customer I would be very miffed about been told to sit in Standard in this situation.

 

[Djgr]

There does't appear to be any decision made on these. Was on a similar train yesterday. The first train manager used one First as First and the other as Standard Premium. With all other coaches standard.

When the train managers changed over. The other said there was no First or Standard premium at all. All standard.

So cue some rather upset passengers who had paid lots of cash for First and those who had already paid to upgrade. Surely they can get their stories right at handover.

Guess the email box will be overloaded with many complaints.

You do get the impression that they make it up as they go along.

Well, as we can now see, running three classes brings about all sorts of new complexities to add to the existing ones that the TOC struggles with.

Which is why they were warned not to do this by railway managers of old with far greater ability and experience in their little toes than the current lot.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't know what the seat count difference is but if I was a pre booked SP customer I would be very miffed about been told to sit in Standard in this situation.

No difference to non provision of First Class, I suppose. Sit in Standard and get a partial refund.

 

[ScottGallagher]

The fact that the Pendolino refurbishment wiĺl keep the same seating/ambience in First and SP, makes it easier for SP or First to be binned later on. Just a question of which one!

 

[paddy1]

The fact that the Pendolino refurbishment wiĺl keep the same seating/ambience in First and SP, makes it easier for SP or First to be binned later on. Just a question of which one!

I think Avanti's plan all along is to ditch first class as it was under Virgin and make SP the new first class, by making first class under the new regime overpriced and hence unappealing. Avanti were lumbered with the Virgin first class complimentary offer when they took over the WCML and were probably peeved about having to 'give away' all the freebies but felt they couldn't just abruptly ditch it from day one as that would have caused an outcry and instantaneous drop in revenue.

 

[100andthirty]

Yes coach K only at weekends although I read this was being discussed on certain trains if it could be changed

How is one supposed to know it's coach K at weekends? The 3 or 4 coaches are still clearly labelled 1st and the station displays also shows the same? Like others here, I regard the whole thing as amateurish. When I completed their endless survey earlier in lockdown, I really did wonder how it would all work. I didn't think it would be so muddled! In that "consultation" (in quotes as I suspect minds had already been made up or commitments already made), much improved first class fare was promised, but, apart from the prosecco, not delivered!

 

[Vespa]

I think Avanti's plan all along is to ditch first class as it was under Virgin and make SP the new first class, by making first class under the new regime overpriced and hence unappealing. Avanti were lumbered with the Virgin first class complimentary offer when they took over the WCML and were probably peeved about having to 'give away' all the freebies but felt they couldn't just abruptly ditch it from day one as that would have caused an outcry and instantaneous drop in revenue.

That does sounds like their game plan, 1st Class IS overpriced for what you get, being able to say it's underutilised and not popular, going the way of other TOCs of having first class seating but no service or lounges etc.

Leaving LNER and GWR with first class catering.

Once first class is dispensed with, all former first class staffs will be sent to general duties or made redundant.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think Avanti's plan all along is to ditch first class as it was under Virgin and make SP the new first class, by making first class under the new regime overpriced and hence unappealing. Avanti were lumbered with the Virgin first class complimentary offer when they took over the WCML and were probably peeved about having to 'give away' all the freebies but felt they couldn't just abruptly ditch it from day one as that would have caused an outcry and instantaneous drop in revenue.

I would hope that is their game plan (as it would make me use "1st" a lot more, possibly even for every journey) but I'm not sure it is. Given the general competence (or lack of) of Avanti as a TOC, never assume conspiracy...

1st's future is as a leisure and self-upgrade product (as businesses will largely no longer pay it except for the most senior of staff), and the only way that will work is if it's affordable, and the only way you'll make it affordable is reducing costs.

 

[Furrball]

1st's future is as a leisure and self-upgrade product (as businesses will largely no longer pay it except for the most senior of staff), and the only way that will work is if it's affordable, and the only way you'll make it affordable is reducing costs.

Slightly OT here but will be interesting to see if this leads to changes to seating layouts in 1st class on IET. The large number of single seats not really being suitable for a more leisure oriented audience

 

[Bletchleyite]

Slightly OT here but will be interesting to see if this leads to changes to seating layouts in 1st class on IET. The large number of single seats not really being suitable for a more leisure oriented audience

Plenty of people travel solo for leisure, so those seats will remain highly popular (indeed, solo travel is when rail is at its most affordable compared to car). For families, the groups of 4 are better. Couples do miss out on tables for two, that said.

 

[Vespa]

Slightly OT here but will be interesting to see if this leads to changes to seating layouts in 1st class on IET. The large number of single seats not really being suitable for a more leisure oriented audience

I'm a single traveller, I travel best on my own than in a group or a coach party, I would like to have a table to myself.

 

[Furrball]

Not suggesting complete removal of single seats...just a rebalance. Anyway OT for this thread!

 

[Facing Back]

I have been doing Warrington - Euston weekly for a few weeks, splitting my time between standard premium and first. I’ve had a couple of coach K only trips and the service was brilliant on one and almost non-existent on the other. Bearing in mind travelling is SP seems to save s minimum of £150 on the trains I use I have happy to reinvest a small amount of the savings in a bag of G&Ts and a sandwich before setting off. I’ve never been asked to pay the upgrade - the first couple of times I chased the TM down, the last time I didn’t see a member of staff for the whole journey so decided if they don’t care neither do I.

I’m newly back to travelling after COVID and I’m really not sure about SP although I am going to keep trying it. Virgin were not perfect but I do miss the £35 advance first on the 21.10 where the Glaswegian steward would ensure you had at least that much in drink before they poured you off the train and the end of the trip.

If I don‘t have time to buy food or drink before boarding then I will upgrade to first. If SP starts to get excessively busy then likewise. I don’t travel at peak times anymore so I have no idea what the previously mobbed 07.30 services are like - if I really need a reservation in order to secure a seat, like it was then on occasions, I’ll pay the eye watering fare, even though my employer or client will wince. For now, cheap upgrades for a big seat on an unbusy train suits me and costs Avanti money. I’m sure they have done their calculations about more people upgrading from standard rather than downgrading from first to make the business model work.

 

[Mollman]

I have been doing Warrington - Euston weekly for a few weeks, splitting my time between standard premium and first. I’ve had a couple of coach K only trips and the service was brilliant on one and almost non-existent on the other. Bearing in mind travelling is SP seems to save s minimum of £150 on the trains I use I have happy to reinvest a small amount of the savings in a bag of G&Ts and a sandwich before setting off. I’ve never been asked to pay the upgrade - the first couple of times I chased the TM down, the last time I didn’t see a member of staff for the whole journey so decided if they don’t care neither do I.

I used SP for the first time the the other week as the Glasgow - Euston train was very busy (Friday to London, Monday back). Both times the TM seemed to be prowling SP to ensure everyone had paid their upgrade. Personally I think there should be a free drink and snack included for the extra money. I would only ever use it again if the train was very busy (which seems to be every Avanti train I go on these days).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Personally I think there should be a free drink and snack included for the extra money.

Literally the whole point of it is not to have that - it is a simple seat upgrade at an affordable price. Against most walk-up off-peak tickets it pretty accurately represents the extra floor space taken up by the lower seat density.

I would only ever use it again if the train was very busy (which seems to be every Avanti train I go on these days).

It's probably not aimed at you, then.

 

[Mollman]

Literally the whole point of it is not to have that - it is a simple seat upgrade at an affordable price. Against most walk-up off-peak tickets it pretty accurately represents the extra floor space taken up by the lower seat density.



It's probably not aimed at you, then.

I don't mean unlimited free drinks just one. If it were slightly cheaper I would be happy to even if standard was quiet. In the end the upgrade is the same cost as Weekend First used to be, but without the free drink.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't mean unlimited free drinks just one. If it were slightly cheaper I would be happy to even if standard was quiet. In the end the upgrade is the same cost as Weekend First used to be, but without the free drink.

Weekend First would have gone up, and the big bonus is weekday availability.

 

[Bishopstone]

I took a tour of the north-west yesterday, using SP in both directions.

09.07 Euston - Liverpool: 11-coach Pendolino with SP in coaches G & H, and First Class J & K.

Six others in coach H for most of the journey, so no problem bagging a '4' to myself.

17.55 Manchester - Euston: 9-coach Pendolino with SP in coach H only.

Roughly a dozen others in the carriage so, again, no issues with settling into a '4'.

In lieu of the First Class goodies, I spent a tenner in M&S Food prior to both legs, including a nice G&T for the evening run. All very relaxing: I had reading to do (work and pleasure) and appreciated the lack of the inevitable interruptions that is part and parcel of food service, and particularly the table clearance routines towards the end of each journey in First. Of course, when/if SP gets more popular and it becomes necessary to share a bay of seats, some of the 'tranquility' dividend will be lost.

I really like the ability to upgrade on the train without a pricing penalty, Weekend First style. This way, if you walk into your intended SP carriage and see it's pretty full, or occupied by some lively stag/hen groups etc, then you can take a last-minute decision not to bother.

Whilst the station ticket machines now offer walk-on SP fares, I can't see why anyone would bother given there's no pricing incentive to buy before you board: and you might get lucky if the Train Manager doesn't make it to coach H. I predict that Avanti will introduce a £5 price saving for 'buy before you board', whilst increasing the on-board supplement to £30, some time next year.

Other observations:

- The SP offer wasn't 'pushed' with any passion, on board: no explanation of the benefits etc, or 'there's plenty of spare seats today, why not upgrade and give it a try?' (I'd be inclined to give Train Managers £5 commission for every upgrade they sold, during the introductory phase, to get them marketing the offer effectively.)
- The train pictorials at stations still refer to coaches G&H as First Class - no mention of SP, and now wrong.
- On the Down train, At Seat food ordering wasn't operable throughout and there were no catering announcements whatsoever, so maybe the shop was closed. On the Up train, At Seat ordering became available in the Tamworth area, but factoring-in a 15 minute wait for delivery I decided this was too late in the journey to try for a coffee. They need to get this profit-centre (catering) working properly!
- I spent an hour 'train spotting' at Warrington BQ, and noted the Anglo-Scottish Pendolinos were comparatively well-patronised in both First and SP. I suppose £25 (for SP) looks better value as the mileage undertaken increases.
- This was a spontaneous day out for me, not using Advances. On the homebound run, my Off Peak Standard single; SP supplement and M&S picnic came-in at almost exactly £100. Not a bargain, but I came away with a feeling of value for money, given the pleasant environment. I'm neither young nor old, and have several of my faculties still intact so don't qualify for a railcard in The North, bit if I did then the extra £20-off would sweeten the package still further.

Would certainly use SP again, including self-pay upgrades when the office will only reimburse for Standard Advance tickets.

 

[73128]

0n 0930 Euston to GLC as far as Lancaster (for Douglas IOM) today and upgraded to SP in Coach H for £25. Group of 4 at other end talking and a few quiet singles working, so a pleasant environment. Interestingly the seat reservations aren't working in the train today. Guard came round on leaving London to check tickets or collect money, at which point an interloper left in a hurry.

 

[voyagerdude220]

0n 0930 Euston to GLC as far as Lancaster (for Douglas IOM) today and upgraded to SP in Coach H for £25. Group of 4 at other end talking and a few quiet singles working, so a pleasant environment. Interestingly the seat reservations aren't working in the train today. Guard came round on leaving London to check tickets or collect money, at which point an interloper left in a hurry.

Good work by the Train Manager, influencing the unwanted visitor to leave.

I've heard there have been problems with seat reservations not being able to download onto Pendolinos over the last few days.

 

[MKB]

The last half a dozen or so Avanti trains I've been on there have been no seat reservations nor info on the external door panels.

 

[voyagerdude220]

The last half a dozen or so Avanti trains I've been on there have been no seat reservations nor info on the external door panels.

Avanti sent a message on Saturday about a large number of people inadvertently boarding the delayed 08:40 Glasgow to Euston and being overcarried, instead of the 08:51 Edinburgh to Euston via Birmingham, blaming the lack of information on the door screens. (despite onboard announcements/Station info etc.)

 

[Trackman]

The last half a dozen or so Avanti trains I've been on there have been no seat reservations nor info on the external door panels

I just thought it was a SP problem, the last couple of times I have reserved a seat in SP it hasn't show up.

Avanti this morning have said there is a fleet-wide problem with the reservation system so it's not just down to individual units.
It's causing all sorts of fun and games.

 

[Grumpy Git]

I just thought it was a SP problem, the last couple of times I have reserved a seat in SP it hasn't show up.

Avanti this morning have said there is a fleet-wide problem with the reservation system so it's not just down to individual units.
It's causing all sorts of fun and games.

Probably late paying their IT contractor and someone entered " del *.* "?

 

[Falcon1200]

The last half a dozen or so Avanti trains I've been on there have been no seat reservations nor info on the external door panels.

Avanti this morning have said there is a fleet-wide problem with the reservation system so it's not just down to individual units.

Travelling with Avanti last Friday (22nd) there were no seat reservations, the Train Manager stated due to an ongoing major fault. No seat reservations on Avanti again today, nor indeed on Cross Country either, fortunately no-one claimed my seat. Not so on LNER a couple of weeks ago when there were again no reservations. The wonders of modern technology.....

 

[MKB]

Took three more Avanti trains yesterday and today: none with seat reservations, just one with door panel displays working.