Avanti West Coast timetable

[The Planner]

Forgive me for not being fully up to speed, but is the planned recast of the WCML timetable (and TfW) still expected to go ahead in December '22, or are these tweaks going on while the recast is deferred?

Yes, being worked on now.

 

[krus_aragon]

Yes, being worked on now.

Thanks for the confirmation, that helps me put the above conversation in context.

 

[Peter0124]

If only Glasgow had a through station like Edinburgh does and a HS link between the two, then you could theoretically run London-Birmingham-Glasgow-Edinburgh on the 1tp2h that are meant to terminate at Glasgow.

Would have preferred if Central and Queen St merged into one big station and there was a through link to the E&G from Central via a tunnel.

 

[30907]

Realtime Trains | 1C93 1017 Crewe to Lancaster | 01/05/2022

Real-time train running information for 1C93 1017 departure from Crewe to Lancaster on 01/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

What are they doing on Sunday with one service running Crewe - Lancaster via Castlefield and Bolton, running empty to Carnforth to reverse, with all further Crewe - Lancaster services running via Chat Moss and Golborne? There is then a following TPE Preston - Oxenholme and yet another for Oxenholme Windermere.

I presume there are engineering works in various places, affecting TPE and Avanti. The Windermere branch is a NT 195 shuttle.

Other than the doubled frequency for Preston - Lancaster, why not (although this would likely require electrification) plan to run a through train from Crewe - Windermere via Bolton?

Why this particular combination?

 

[tornado]

Agree that Edinburgh is a major traffic draw, but IMHO alternating the hourly trains between there and Glasgow provided an appropriate level of service to both, especially when TPE were running a full service (I can just remember those far-off days) and there was a TPE Glasgow train close behind an Avanti Edinburgh, and vice versa.

Not sure if you've missed something on the timetable, but I managed to get Glasgow-Bham with a 22 min change at Preston. Annoying, but not as bad as 45 mins. Also on the way there I got Pendo+Pendo, but unfortunately on the way back it's Voyager+Pendo.

I do agree that direct would be better. They are both large cities with big populations. There are also flights between the two so must be a decent demand.

 

[507020]

Why this particular combination?

If there is a blockade somewhere between Crewe and Preston and another one north of Oxenholme, the only through route you have is from Crewe to Windermere via Bolton, so why not run a through train rather than 3 separate shuttles?

 

[Falcon1200]

Not sure if you've missed something on the timetable, but I managed to get Glasgow-Bham with a 22 min change at Preston. Annoying, but not as bad as 45 mins.

No, I've not missed anything, the Up direction is a reasonable connection but the Down certainly is not, in the absence of most TPE Glasgow trains it's a minimum 45 minute wait somewhere - Which is one reason why I agree fully that the through trains must be restored !

 

[Some guy]

Are you able to give an idea as to what a standard hours departures look like from Eus for Dec 22? The via Birmingham Scotland service would have been xx.43 previously, so clearly some changes.
thanks

It’s now express to Coventry which is a bummer to MKC passengers who get put on the stopping 807 to Birmingham and no direct hourly service to Scotland

 

[Watershed]

If there is a blockade somewhere between Crewe and Preston and another one north of Oxenholme, the only through route you have is from Crewe to Windermere via Bolton, so why not run a through train rather than 3 separate shuttles?

Precisely how are you suggesting this would work? Avanti obviously don't have route knowledge or access rights for the Windermere branch.

 

[tornado]

No, I've not missed anything, the Up direction is a reasonable connection but the Down certainly is not, in the absence of most TPE Glasgow trains it's a minimum 45 minute wait somewhere - Which is one reason why I agree fully that the through trains must be restored !fdg

17.15-18.52 Bham to Preston. Avanti Voyager (Blackpool service). 19.14-21.44 Preston to Glasgow Central. Pendolino.

 

[Falcon1200]

17.15-18.52 Bham to Preston. Avanti Voyager (Blackpool service). 19.14-21.44 Preston to Glasgow Central. Pendolino.

One decent connection (late on) in a day ?!! How about:

0815-0951 B'ham-Preston, 1042-1303 Preston-Glasgow Central; 51 minute wait
0915-1055 ditto, 1141-1402 ditto; 46 minute wait.
1015-1151 ditto, 1241-1516 ditto; 50 minute wait.

These are the times of day I travel. It should be noted that in each case the Euston-Glasgow C train departs Preston around 10 minutes before the arrival of the train from Birmingham, hence the long wait.

 

[507020]

Precisely how are you suggesting this would work? Avanti obviously don't have route knowledge or access rights for the Windermere branch.

That is likely the issue. 3 different services have to be run which don’t connect with each other because 3 different companies each have pieces of unique route knowledge.

 

[Starmill]

The tourist demand means Edinburgh is hugely more popular as a destination than Glasgow. Pre COVID the Edinburghs were far busier, same with the TPEs from Manchester.

Part of that is that they offer cheap Advances, though.

Glasgow is a bigger city (and one I quite like) but it's of more significance to people within the Central Belt than travel from London, Birmingham etc.

Demand is split fairly evenly between the West Midlands or North West cities and Glasgow or Edinburgh. It just appears that Edinburgh is busier because it has always had fewer services than Glasgow, so they load better. Unless your fast London - Glasgow trains could operate non-stop all the way it'd be fairly inevitable that Glasgow would still have more services.

 

[30907]

That is likely the issue. 3 different services have to be run which don’t connect with each other because 3 different companies each have pieces of unique route knowledge.

Looking at the overall service tomorrow, rather than random trains:

Northern are running normally.

Avanti are running Milton Keynes-Lancaster. Whether they could run through to Oxenholme and reverse there I don't know but the timetable appears to have sufficient layover - a neat solution, except that you would have to allow time at Lancaster to detrain passengers for Scotland, as Oxenholme isn't geared up for transferring large numbers of passengers (and baggage) to buses - so it would only benefit Lakes passengers.

TPE are running a strike timetable, which messes things up generally.

And I very much doubt Northern, let alone Avanti (as per thread title) would see a particular virtue in running a Crewe-Manchester-Windermere service on a normal operating day.

 

[507020]

Looking at the overall service tomorrow, rather than random trains:

Northern are running normally.

Avanti are running Milton Keynes-Lancaster. Whether they could run through to Oxenholme and reverse there I don't know but the timetable appears to have sufficient layover - a neat solution, except that you would have to allow time at Lancaster to detrain passengers for Scotland, as Oxenholme isn't geared up for transferring large numbers of passengers (and baggage) to buses - so it would only benefit Lakes passengers.

TPE are running a strike timetable, which messes things up generally.

And I very much doubt Northern, let alone Avanti (as per thread title) would see a particular virtue in running a Crewe-Manchester-Windermere service on a normal operating day.

The advantage of reversing at Oxenholme is of course the presence of a crossover usually used by trains from Windermere, but TPE buses are running Oxenholme - Carlisle, with (hopefully not if they have needed advice not to travel tomorrow) large numbers of passengers being transshipped there. Is duplicating the Avanti route, rather than running their namesake TransPennine services the best use of limited resources during a strike? I didn’t suggest Crewe - Manchester - Windermere for a normal operating day. I was purely suggesting that it may be more logical tomorrow than separate Crewe - Lancaster, Preston - Oxenholme and Oxenholme - Windermere services run by separate operators.

 

[Cowley]

We probably could do with getting back on the Avanti Timetable topic from here please.

 

[krus_aragon]

We probably could do with getting back on the Avanti Timetable topic from here please.

What, you mean this wasn't a timetabled departure from the topic? :P

 

[Cowley]

What, you mean this wasn't a timetabled departure from the topic? :P

I can’t find it in the timetable anywhere. Not even in the appendix.

 

[Sentinel]

Does anyone know why Avanti are not allowing any bookings to be made on the direct services from Macclesfield to London this week (apart from the two early morning trains)? Their website shows them greyed out with the words "Sold Out". They are offering some options changing at Stoke though. All the trains are showing as running according to Real Time Trains.
If I try to book on another website (e.g. TPE), I get the same response.
Have they changed their timetable just for this week?

 

[philosopher]

Does anyone know why Avanti are not allowing any bookings to be made on the direct services from Macclesfield to London this week (apart from the two early morning trains)? Their website shows them greyed out with the words "Sold Out". They are offering some options changing at Stoke though. All the trains are showing as running according to Real Time Trains.
If I try to book on another website (e.g. TPE), I get the same response.
Have they changed their timetable just for this week?

I have this problem for the 21st May from Euston to Birmingham, though it seems to effect all Avanti‘s routes. I assume timetables have not been confirmed. When are tickets likely to go on sale for this date?

 

[Sentinel]

I have this problem for the 21st May from Euston to Birmingham, though it seems to effect all Avanti‘s routes. I assume timetables have not been confirmed. When are tickets likely to go on sale for this date?

On Avanti’s website where it shows timetable changes, it says the timetable is confirmed, and it shows the trains in question running. There is also a “book now” link next to the relevant day, but this still goes to the “sold out” messages.
I wonder if this is something to do with the “Great Ticket Sale” and Avanti have, for simplicity, taken all the off-peak trains out of the reservation system? Be interesting what happens on Tuesday when the sale ends. Perhaps they will reset the website to reflect the true state of play?

I have this problem for the 21st May from Euston to Birmingham, though it seems to effect all Avanti‘s routes. I assume timetables have not been confirmed. When are tickets likely to go on sale for this date?

Well the Avanti site is back to normal. All the “sold outs” have disappeared allowing you to book “non sale” tickets on the trains that were “sold out”. Without actually explaining it, Avanti had clearly set up their website to sell only the “Great Ticket Sale” tickets and nothing else..i.e. no walk up tickets, no 1st class tickets etc. What a shambles and what a way to treat their regular customers. The trains I wanted are now showing both 1st class and Premier Standard with plenty of availability…. and with “regular” advance tickets available.
So even if a train had all of its “Great Ticket Sale” fares consumed, no-one could book the usual tickets until yesterday, even for trains this week.
What are these clowns up to? Clearly not revenue maximisation, but then again, does the present contract incentivise this, or is it covered by subsidy anyway I wonder….