Avanti West Coast Two Together Railcard conflicting information

[Th764]

Had a rather unfortunate experience with Avanti West Coast recently. I was due to travel in first class from MAN to EUS return using a Two Together Railcard with my wife. My wife's grandmother become seriously ill just before we were due to travel and understandably she stayed at home. Aware of the conditions of the Railcard I contacted Avanti West Coast by webchat and asked them what my options were. They said their train managers had been informed to charge the third that had been saved on one of the tickets if someone travelled alone. While this seemed a little unreasonable I accepted it as 'rules are rules' and clarified that I should board the train and deal with the train manager. Incidently they clarified this three times on the webchat at my request - I apologised for asking the same question in different ways but explained I had heard horror stories about ticket misunderstandings.

Anyway at their say so, webchat printed off, I boarded the train. You can probably guess what's coming but the train manager just kept repeating "internet people know nothing about tickets" and after about 30 minutes I felt I had no option but to pay the full fare. He said I could "sort it out at the ticket office at Euston". On arrival at Euston they said they couldn't refund me there although they apologised and issued me with a complimentary return ticket home.

I wonder whether anyone else has experienced this? And what Avanti is asking their train managers to do? Interested in people's thoughts - I complained a couple of weeks ago but was informed it might take 28 days for a response.

 

[gray1404]

So in the end you didn't have to pay any additional fares? If so it sounds like they apologised for any confusion and issued authority to travel for the return journey.

 

[Th764]

So in the end you didn't have to pay any additional fares? If so it sounds like they apologised for any confusion and issued authority to travel for the return journey.

No the train manager charged me for a new first class ticket and said I could 'sort it out' when I got to Euston.

 

[MikeWh]

I don't know whether it's been clarified or not, but the usual advice is to travel with both tickets such that you have actually paid 1/3 more. Not guaranteed to be accepted, but the overpayment makes it pretty difficult to argue that the railway has lost out.

 

[sheff1]

They said their train managers had been informed to charge the third that had been saved on one of the tickets if someone travelled alone. You can probably guess what's coming but the train manager just kept repeating "internet people know nothing about tickets" and after about 30 minutes I felt I had no option but to pay the full fare.

If the train manager believes "internet people" know nothing about tickets he should take it up internally, not seek to extort money from passengers who have been given written confirmation that they could travel by paying the difference between the discounted fare and the undiscounted fare.

He said I could "sort it out at the ticket office at Euston".

If he genuinely thought he was taking the correct action there would be nothing to "sort out".

 

[Th764]

If the train manager believes "internet people" know nothing about tickets he should take it up internally, not seek to extort money from passengers who have been given written confirmation that they could travel by paying the difference between the discounted fare and the undiscounted fare.



If he genuinely thought he was taking the correct action there would be nothing to "sort out".

Quite. I was just wondering what Avanti's policy is on this really. I don't get the train often and clearly my admin skills aren't advanced enough for UK rail travel! Incidently, was he incentivised to do this and is he likely to get any feedback from my complaint?

 

[gray1404]

In that cause you need to make a formal complaint to AWC seeking a refund of that additional monies paid, above what they promised you should have to have paid.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't know whether it's been clarified or not, but the usual advice is to travel with both tickets such that you have actually paid 1/3 more. Not guaranteed to be accepted, but the overpayment makes it pretty difficult to argue that the railway has lost out.

TBH I don't entirely understand why that isn't the rule, as there is, unlike say a Family card, no scope for someone travelling alone to save money with the card, so no such instance is going to be an attempt to do so. I suspect they just didn't think of it.

 

[gray1404]

In this specific case AWC need to provide a refund of the difference between what they promise the OP they'd have to pay (the one third saving on one of the tickets) and the actual price charged for a new ticket on board.

Depending on the ticket type, there may be a refund due (minus a £10 administration fee) on the unused ticket. This will be the case if it was either an Off Peak or Anytime ticket.

I see that the OP has already submitted a complaint. They now need to wait and see what the response is and if AWC provide a solution they are happy with. If the OP hasn't done so already, it would help if they would ensure they've sent a copy of: all the original tickets, the new ticket that was purchased on board the train, the ticket they received at Euston for travel on, a copy of the web chat and a full description of what happened (including locations, times, names and descriptions of who they spoke to on the day.)

If the reply from AWC is not satisfactory then the OP can ask for them to look at this again (by a Manager) before they issue a Deadlock Letter. After this, the OP then has the right to take their complaint to the Rail Ombudsman.

 

[pdeaves]

issued me with a complimentary return ticket home

Not getting into the ins and outs of the original situation, but does this action effectively even things out now?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Assuming that
- this was all done on identical single tickets (so MAN - EUS cost the same as EUS - MAN)
- the OP had not acquired their EUS - MAN ticket before being issued with the free ticket at Euston

then I think the position is that the OP expected the following:
- the OP had bought two MAN - EUS tickets at 1/3 discount using their Two Together card - so 2 tickets each at 2/3 price = 1 1/3 ticket price
- on the advice from webchat, they expected to pay an additional 1/3 of a ticket price to restore one of the tickets to a full price one
- to return to Manchester, they expected to buy a single ticket at full price.

So the total anticipated spend was 2 2/3 full price tickets.

What has actually happened so far is
- two tickets bought with a Two Together card as above = 1 1/3 ticket price
- as required by the guard, one full fare single at 1 ticket price
- as provided by Euston ticket office, one free ticket back to Manchester

So the total actual spend was 2 1/3 full price tickets.

So if I've understood things properly, in purely financial terms the OP has actually benefitted financially from the combined actions of the railways to the extent of one third of the price of a ticket.

 

[30907]

Assuming that
- this was all done on identical single tickets (so MAN - EUS cost the same as EUS - MAN)....
So if I've understood things properly, in purely financial terms the OP has actually benefitted financially from the combined actions of the railways to the extent of one third of the price of a ticket.

That's a resonable assumpton if the OP was travelling with an Offpeak Return AND Euston issued him with a half-price Offpeak Single (SVH).
But as they were travelling in First the original tickets were at least as likely to be Advances, given the differential Avanti apply to First Offpeak over the regulated Standard! So the return leg might have cost rather more than the original