Aviation Discussion

[trentside]

Following on from the interest generated by previous aviation threads, I decided it might be worthwhile for us to have a thread to discuss various aviation topics and to post the latest news, as most of the previous threads have got side-tracked onto various other topics.

Iberia Express Launch

The first newsworthy topic I'm going to put into this thread is Iberia's launch of Iberia Express, a new low-cost airline which is initially intended to serve various domestic routes, with 4 A320s. This is apparently an attempt to plug the gap left by Spaniar, and presumably an attempt to stop Ryanair gaining a greater foothold in Spain.

The airline are also looking to expand beyond the domestic network, to some international destinations - though, surely this would bring it into conflict with Vueling, which is part owned by IAG?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17496003

 

[Heinz57]

Speaking of Iberia. As of today, all their flights to LHR will be arriving to and departing from Terminal 5. They will also have a BA flight number.

Obviously BA wants all the IAG together. Good plan, cuts down the time needed for connections between the two airlines. When the deal with BMI goes through and they become part of IAG, bet they end up getting moved to T5 aswell.

I understand BA wanted BMI because of its long haul routes?

 

[trentside]

Speaking of Iberia. As of today, all their flights to LHR will be arriving to and departing from Terminal 5. They will also have a BA flight number.

Obviously BA wants all the IAG together. Good plan, cuts down the time needed for connections between the two airlines. When the deal with BMI goes through and they become part of IAG, bet they end up getting moved to T5 aswell.

I understand BA wanted BMI because of its long haul routes?

That's an interesting development, they'll apparently be reducing BA/IB connection times from 90 minutes to 60 - which is a positive step.

I think their main motive for acquiring BMI was the slots at Heathrow.

 

[anthony263]

Seems George Osbourne is trying to get Heathrow's 3rd runway back on the agenda.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/think-heathrow-third-runway-pledge-043045304.html

Seems Clegg and Greening were no to impressed

 

[WestCoast]

If you look at the strategy, Iberia Express is a bit of a ploy really. The main part of the plan is to take-over weaker Iberia mainline routes from Madrid and operate them with lower costs e.g. by having staff on different contracts to the rest of the airline. It's a way of getting around the unions as well, who would block cost saving measures at Iberia mainline.

The onboard product isn't likely to be much different from what Iberia mainline offers - slimline dense seating and charges for refreshments.

 

[trentside]

Seems George Osbourne is trying to get Heathrow's 3rd runway back on the agenda.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/think-heathrow-third-runway-pledge-043045304.html

Seems Clegg and Greening were no to impressed

Clegg won't be impressed because he sees it as something to gain him popularity, despite the third runway being beneficial to the economy. The problem will be the numerous Tory MPs who will be worried about the effect on their constituencies. The Tube is currently plastered with BAA adverts promoting Heathrow expansion.

If you look at the strategy, Iberia Express is a bit of a ploy really. The main part of the plan is to take-over weaker Iberia mainline routes from Madrid and operate them with lower costs e.g. by having staff on different contracts to the rest of the airline. It's a way of getting around the unions as well, who would block cost saving measures at Iberia mainline.

The onboard product isn't likely to be much different from what Iberia mainline offers - slimline dense seating and charges for refreshments.

Thanks for the insight.

 

[starrymarkb]

On another subject - I see the 1000th 777 is now in the air (it's for Emirates)

 

[SwindonPkwy]

Seems George Osbourne is trying to get Heathrow's 3rd runway back on the agenda.

IIRC, Willie Walsh went on record recently saying the government "lacked balls" on the whole SE runway capacity issue. Whether this was aimed specifically at Greening I am not sure. I can certainly see Osborne's point of view, given that anything stifling the aviation industry may hold back growth in the economy. I think we will see a few things in the coming months/years.
1) The 'independent' review of runway capacity will find that LHR's 3rd runway is firmly in the public interest.
2) The government will finally jump on the BAA bandwagon, but only after London's mayoral elections.
3) The dual mode runway arrangement (operating during the Olympics) will be further extended; so as to include 'normal' operation and not just in 'recovery' situations.
4) The 3rd runway is given tacit approval to get the go ahead after the next general election.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

On another subject - I see the 1000th 777 is now in the air (it's for Emirates)

Not surprising it is being delivered to Emirates! It is a great aircraft, the -200 replacing the many Tristars, DC-10's and MD-11's. Now, the -300ER is replacing many 744's. Its success is also a sad thing because it means far less variety at airports everywhere.

 

[HSTEd]

IIRC, Willie Walsh went on record recently saying the government "lacked balls" on the whole SE runway capacity issue. Whether this was aimed specifically at Greening I am not sure. I can certainly see Osborne's point of view, given that anything stifling the aviation industry may hold back growth in the economy. I think we will see a few things in the coming months/years.
1) The 'independent' review of runway capacity will find that LHR's 3rd runway is firmly in the public interest.
2) The government will finally jump on the BAA bandwagon, but only after London's mayoral elections.
3) The dual mode runway arrangement (operating during the Olympics) will be further extended; so as to include 'normal' operation and not just in 'recovery' situations.
4) The 3rd runway is given tacit approval to get the go ahead after the next general election.

We won't see any tacit support from the government until after the 2015 election IMO, when it will likely be a central plank of the Conservative manifesto. Until then it would risk the Liberal Democrats pressing the "nuclear button".

 

[Ascot]

I understand BA wanted BMI because of its long haul routes?

The slots mainly as bmi don't really do any worthwhile long haul routes compared to Virgin or BA. It's pretty annoying as I, like many others, will loose an awful lot of air-miles as well as a good connection network.


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[SwindonPkwy]

It's pretty annoying as I, like many others, will loose an awful lot of air-miles

I, too, am holding quite a lot of BMI air miles. I was hoping that one of two things may happen.
1) I get an e-mail from Lufthansa (just before the takeover is completed) offering to transfer the miles to them or one of the other Star Alliance members. My choice would be Singapore Airlines.
2) I get an e-mail from BA (shortly after the takeover) offering enhanced transfer rates to them.
I haven't read anything online to confirm if either scenario will happen. I guess it is still early days due to the whole approval process.

 

[Ascot]

I, too, am holding quite a lot of BMI air miles. I was hoping that one of two things may happen.
1) I get an e-mail from Lufthansa (just before the takeover is completed) offering to transfer the miles to them or one of the other Star Alliance members. My choice would be Singapore Airlines.
2) I get an e-mail from BA (shortly after the takeover) offering enhanced transfer rates to them.
I haven't read anything online to confirm if either scenario will happen. I guess it is still early days due to the whole approval process.

A 1 to 1 would be nice with BA as well as a BD Gold to BA gold although I just can't see that for obvious reasons.

I really don't know how I'll play this if I'm honest. I might start a fresh with Aegean since the Qualification rates are low I could build the levels back up.


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[Schnellzug]

Not surprising it is being delivered to Emirates! It is a great aircraft, the -200 replacing the many Tristars, DC-10's and MD-11's. Now, the -300ER is replacing many 744's. Its success is also a sad thing because it means far less variety at airports everywhere.

I don't trust them. They're too big for two engines, anything that needs engines that are in themselves the size of 737s could do with more engines if you ask me.

 

[AndrewP]

IIRC, Willie Walsh went on record recently saying the government "lacked balls"

He is correct - that idiotic hypocrite Ed Balls is in the Labour Party

 

[Sun!]

IIRC, Willie Walsh went on record recently saying the government "lacked balls" on the whole SE runway capacity issue. Whether this was aimed specifically at Greening I am not sure. I can certainly see Osborne's point of view, given that anything stifling the aviation industry may hold back growth in the economy. I think we will see a few things in the coming months/years.

He's right, LHR runway three is essential to the UK economy. And the government has no balls when it comes to the project, pandering to the nimby's and the fascist wing of the Green's. (Im a greenie myself, but im not unaware of reality)

I, too, am holding quite a lot of BMI air miles. I was hoping that one of two things may happen.
1) I get an e-mail from Lufthansa (just before the takeover is completed) offering to transfer the miles to them or one of the other Star Alliance members. My choice would be Singapore Airlines.
2) I get an e-mail from BA (shortly after the takeover) offering enhanced transfer rates to them.

Luthansa Miles&More is the poor programme in Star and far inferior to BA's Executive Club.
If you can, and you want to stay in Star, go for Aegean, its the best bay far on miles for getting to the next status, and upgrading. Though its risky being a Greek airline they did actually make money in 2011.(or ive also heared good things about Asiana)
You should be able to merge into BAs Executive Club, and I think leagally as they are merging, you would have the legal right to do so under EU law. If I was you I would go for the BA one.

 

[SwindonPkwy]

Luthansa Miles&More is the poor programme in Star and far inferior to BA's Executive Club.
If you can, and you want to stay in Star, go for Aegean, its the best bay far on miles for getting to the next status, and upgrading. Though its risky being a Greek airline they did actually make money in 2011.(or ive also heared good things about Asiana)
You should be able to merge into BAs Executive Club, and I think leagally as they are merging, you would have the legal right to do so under EU law. If I was you I would go for the BA one.

Yes, given the choice, I think I would go for BA Executive Club. I have flown with them twice in the last year and like Terminal 5 a lot.
If and when the BMI takeover is completed, I wonder what new destinations BA will introduce. The issue of emerging markets in Asia has been well publicised. For example, CDG, FRA and AMS between them, serve 7 destinations in China over and above those served from LHR. Also, could we see the likes of Jakarta or Manila; if KLM can fill their 777's to these destinations then surly BA can? If not a 777 then there is always the 787 to come. This would be an ideal aircraft for emerging markets.

 

[BananaRepublic]

.......Also, could we see the likes of Jakarta or Manila; if KLM can fill their 777's to these destinations then surly BA can?

In the case of Jakarta, the Netherlands has its historical links with Indonesia, hence the busy KLM services.
BA couldn't hope to do the same amount of business to Indonesia from the UK.

Similarly, KLM doesn't serve some of the British Commonweath destinations on the BA long haul network, or has fewer flights to them.

 

[Ascot]

I'm not sure if I could justify moving over to BA/OW since they are nonexistent at Birmingham and travelling to/from London is out the question. For that matter SkyTeam isn't going to happen.

Lufthansa seems nice and might have a look although it's going to be a real challenge to attain HON level.


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[starrymarkb]

I'm leaning towards BA - though for any Oneworld or Star program I'd have to go to London. Bristol just has Skyteam through KLM and Air Frog, (for most fares they only give 25% of the miles), Exeter is even worse with just Flybe who's rewards4all is useless!

 

[Ascot]

I'm leaning towards BA - though for any Oneworld or Star program I'd have to go to London. Bristol just has Skyteam through KLM and Air Frog, (for most fares they only give 25% of the miles), Exeter is even worse with just Flybe who's rewards4all is useless!

I've only ever redeemed points for the annual lounge pass and even then a mini fridge full of Stella and Tonic has always been the centrepiece.

All seriousness now I've been looking at BA today and worked out people could get BA Gold with a good mileage run for about £900 which isn't bad. Very tempted to take out this "insurance" before BMI go bump as I'll be left with nothing. Then a simple 20,000 miles with Aegean to get Star Gold again.

 

[SwindonPkwy]

In the case of Jakarta, the Netherlands has its historical links with Indonesia, hence the busy KLM services.

I take your point about the historic links but I believe there are two reasons why we could see BA on this route.
First, KLM has long been punching above its weight in aviation terms. So, many of its passengers will be transiting through its AMS hub. For BA (OneWorld) to keep pace with Star Alliance and Skyteam (not to mention Emirates) they need to plug a few of their gaps.
Second, Indonesia is in the top 20 largest economies and has significant Mining, Oil and Commodities interests. Some of the UK's largest companies operate in this field and this could give BA a steady supply of high yielding business passengers.

Obviously, time will tell.

 

[starrymarkb]

I've only ever redeemed points for the annual lounge pass and even then a mini fridge full of Stella and Tonic has always been the centrepiece.

All seriousness now I've been looking at BA today and worked out people could get BA Gold with a good mileage run for about £900 which isn't bad. Very tempted to take out this "insurance" before BMI go bump as I'll be left with nothing. Then a simple 20,000 miles with Aegean to get Star Gold again.

I've heard that from a friend who had to go Economy Plus when the normal seats had sold out. She looked in the lounge at Exeter and saw pretty much what you described!

ooh I might have to look into that for next year (I'm planning a US trip which would get me half way to Bronze from a clean slate)

 

[SwindonPkwy]

Not surprisingly, IAG has been given approval to purchase BMI by European competition authorities.

 

[trentside]

Not surprisingly, IAG has been given approval to purchase BMI by European competition authorities.

Apparently conditional on them releasing 14 landing slots at Heathrow.

 

[SwindonPkwy]

Apparently conditional on them releasing 14 landing slots at Heathrow.

It will be interesting to see if Virgin bid for the slots given how vocal Richard Branson was regarding the takeover.

 

[starrymarkb]

Given that Virgin lease out several slots they already own I can't see them getting any of the new ones.

 

[SwindonPkwy]

Given that Virgin lease out several slots they already own I can't see them getting any of the new ones.

Good point. Just PR from SRB then!!

 

[CC 72100]

Anybody watch 'Air Crash Investigation'? It's been a new series for the past couple of weeks, 9pm Monday nights on Nat geo (Sky 526, also available on sky go)

 

[starrymarkb]

Just looking at a Multi City trip (Probably LON-BOS-LAX-LON) for next year and BA want about £800-900 return. (Direct BA to BOS and from LAX and AA BOS-LAX) but playing with Kayak threw up US Airways for £600 - OK there are more stops (in Philadelphia on the London legs and Phoenix on the Trans-Con).

But having heard some Horrific things about US Airways transatlantic (tight seats, poor service) I have to wonder if it's worth the saving.

 

[flymo]

Some interesting comments above about Indonesia and The Philippines, who knows what will happen in the future.
BA used to fly to Manila (MNL) not so long ago as an extension of one of their Hong Kong (HKG) flights. Likewise Taipei (TPE) was also on the list as an extension of one of the HKG flights. It was something like TPE 5 times a week and MNL twice or something like that. I know the BA fifth freedom rights were well used from HKG - MNL by domestic helpers going to and from home. The ticket prices were much cheaper too than PR and CX on the route at the time.
I wonder if the market is there for a BA flight LHR to MNL direct, maybe 3 times a week or so?

As an aside, yesterday at one of the Airport Express stations in Hong Kong there was a departure board for the airport showing the 11:45 Airasia flight to KL was delayed to 11:35. Not sure if that was a 23h 50m delay or a typo. Hope it was a typo...