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Aviation Discussion

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AlterEgo

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Flight aware seems to suggest embraer ERJ 145 which if i am correct they use on lease from bmi regional. I has originally assumed itd be a saab.

They're even more fun. Big windows and they go like s**t off a shovel as they're jets.

Seats on the left hand side are all singles which is ace.

Just bear in mind that you won't be able to bring anything larger than a daysack on board as it won't fit in the overhead bins.
 
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Dentonian

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Flight aware seems to suggest embraer ERJ 145 which if i am correct they use on lease from bmi regional. I has originally assumed itd be a saab.

Unless sat at the back (engine noise), you won't really notice much difference to a larger jet. Shame in a way; I flew on a Saab 340 from JFK to Boston many years ago. It was really interesting queuing to take off sandwiched between numerous wide bodies. The flight itself was great; stable and comfortable.
 

Mag_seven

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I'm travelling from Luton airport in a few weeks time for the first time - can anyone share what the experience is like there please? What are the facilities like "airside".

Appalling.

I hate Luton Airport and it has no redeeming qualities. One of the worst in Europe, and I’ve visited a lot.

A zoo. Even before the construction work.

Having now used LTN I agree - complete contrast to ZRH where I flew to/from.
 

Crawley Ben

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Norwegian flight DY7021 from Paris (CDG) to New York (JFK) has been diverted to London Gatwick tonight due to some sort of Hydraulic failure. Aircraft is a Boeing 787 Dreamliner. Reg G-CKKL

Cheers

Ben
 

Busaholic

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I've been thinking about raising something on here for years now, which shows a degree of reluctance on my part, but if I don't raise it then I will never get a possible explanation.

First of all, I'm a complete ignoramus on aviation matters, know next to nothing about different aircraft, etc, but in this context I don't believe that's too important, so please bear with me.

This story is sixteen years old now. I was in London for a few days, almost certainly the early part of March 2002 because I was attending the London Book Fair, which took place at that time of year. Sunday was Booksellers' Day so, being my calling, that was the day I always attended. Monday was sometimes worth going to for me, but Tuesday never so. So, it would have been on either the Monday or Tuesday, it was a nice early Spring day and I elected to sit outside the ground floor café/restaurant at the Barbican Centre in the City of London, with remarkably few others doing the same. Time was lunchtime, around 12.30 to 1.15, I'd say, and suddenly there was this terrible screeching roar in the sky above as a passenger aircraft (if I saw which airline, then I forgot) went almost overhead in a N.E. to S.W. direction seemingly only yards above us at low speed, with an RAF aircraft to one side of it almost as if tied by an umbilical cord. This was only six months after 9/11, and the sound of the aircraft was chillingly similar to that of the first airplane to hit the World Trade Centre, captured on that piece of film. I admit to being full of apprehension and dread, thinking that, whether a terrorist action or not, that plane was going to crash, and quite soon. I got on the phone to my wife and told her what I'd seen and heard, in the expectation that the magnitude of it would shortly become apparent. I didn't know what else to do, phones in those days weren't mini computers and I had no access to any other sources of info. I awaited the air being filled with insistent sirens, etc etc, but none ever transpired and, what's more, the incident was never reported in any newspaper, no news channels, nothing. It was as though I'd dreamed the whole thing up (spoiler- I didn't!) I'd lived and worked in London for decades before that and the only time I'd seen an airplane flying so low was on the approaches to Heathrow, or London City, but it was that awful screeching noise that really got to me. There must have been a news blackout on it all, as thousands of people in the City of London at least must have witnessed it.

So my question here is simple - does anyone else remember this/ heard tell of it or can provide a rational explanation as to what was going on.

Thank you for your forbearance.
 

fowler9

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I've been thinking about raising something on here for years now, which shows a degree of reluctance on my part, but if I don't raise it then I will never get a possible explanation.

First of all, I'm a complete ignoramus on aviation matters, know next to nothing about different aircraft, etc, but in this context I don't believe that's too important, so please bear with me.

This story is sixteen years old now. I was in London for a few days, almost certainly the early part of March 2002 because I was attending the London Book Fair, which took place at that time of year. Sunday was Booksellers' Day so, being my calling, that was the day I always attended. Monday was sometimes worth going to for me, but Tuesday never so. So, it would have been on either the Monday or Tuesday, it was a nice early Spring day and I elected to sit outside the ground floor café/restaurant at the Barbican Centre in the City of London, with remarkably few others doing the same. Time was lunchtime, around 12.30 to 1.15, I'd say, and suddenly there was this terrible screeching roar in the sky above as a passenger aircraft (if I saw which airline, then I forgot) went almost overhead in a N.E. to S.W. direction seemingly only yards above us at low speed, with an RAF aircraft to one side of it almost as if tied by an umbilical cord. This was only six months after 9/11, and the sound of the aircraft was chillingly similar to that of the first airplane to hit the World Trade Centre, captured on that piece of film. I admit to being full of apprehension and dread, thinking that, whether a terrorist action or not, that plane was going to crash, and quite soon. I got on the phone to my wife and told her what I'd seen and heard, in the expectation that the magnitude of it would shortly become apparent. I didn't know what else to do, phones in those days weren't mini computers and I had no access to any other sources of info. I awaited the air being filled with insistent sirens, etc etc, but none ever transpired and, what's more, the incident was never reported in any newspaper, no news channels, nothing. It was as though I'd dreamed the whole thing up (spoiler- I didn't!) I'd lived and worked in London for decades before that and the only time I'd seen an airplane flying so low was on the approaches to Heathrow, or London City, but it was that awful screeching noise that really got to me. There must have been a news blackout on it all, as thousands of people in the City of London at least must have witnessed it.

So my question here is simple - does anyone else remember this/ heard tell of it or can provide a rational explanation as to what was going on.

Thank you for your forbearance.
With the greatest of respect maybe you misunderstood what you saw and heard. Back in 2002 there were more louder aircraft flying in to London than there are now. You say you are an aviation ignoramus, how do you know it was an RAF aircraft next to the one in question. The planes that flew in to the twin towers were a 757 and a 767 I think. Either of those flying low over London wouldn't be rare. Perhaps weather or wind made it louder than usual.
 

Peter Mugridge

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That sounds like a fuel tanker with a fighter "drinking" from it, if it was that low probably a demonstration rather than a live fueling.

That's if they really were that close together.


There are often flypasts over central London which involve close formations on special events. Example from later in 2002 ( not my video ):

 

gsnedders

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That sounds like a fuel tanker with a fighter "drinking" from it, if it was that low probably a demonstration rather than a live fueling.

That's if they really were that close together.


There are often flypasts over central London which involve close formations on special events. Example from later in 2002 ( not my video ):



That is the approximate separation you'd expect of an aircraft under escort, too. That said, it seems highly unlikely post 9/11 for an aircraft under escort to be heading to LCY or LHR (precisely because their approaches they fly over a large, densely populated area; STN is preferred in part as a result).

Seems much more likely to be a formation fly-by for some special event.
 

theageofthetra

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It was the Queens golden jubilee that year and there was a big flypast that June. I wonder if this was part of those celebrations and it was so loud because it was a VC10 tanker?
 

Peter Mugridge

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I thought that, but the March date wouldn't fit? The video I linked to is of the Jubilee event but that was in June.
 

AlterEgo

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Almost certainly a flypast for some occasion or other. They wouldn't have actually been refuelling.

There is no other reason for RAF fixed wing aircraft to be that low over London, and if it was an aircraft under escort it would have made the news.
 

Busaholic

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Almost certainly a flypast for some occasion or other. They wouldn't have actually been refuelling.

There is no other reason for RAF fixed wing aircraft to be that low over London, and if it was an aircraft under escort it would have made the news.
I'd have thought a flypast would have made the news in some way. The RAF fighter (and I know just enough about aircraft to recognise it as such) was flying as close to the other aircraft, if not closer, than Red Arrows displays I have seen. Perhaps it was the (to me, anyway) apparent screaming of the non-fighter, and the immediate connection I made in my mind to New York, that convinced me something untoward was happening: I was SO relieved when I realised it hadn't.

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions, anyway.
 

fowler9

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I'd have thought a flypast would have made the news in some way. The RAF fighter (and I know just enough about aircraft to recognise it as such) was flying as close to the other aircraft, if not closer, than Red Arrows displays I have seen. Perhaps it was the (to me, anyway) apparent screaming of the non-fighter, and the immediate connection I made in my mind to New York, that convinced me something untoward was happening: I was SO relieved when I realised it hadn't.

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions, anyway.
Could it have been an aircraft with the Ram Air Turbine deployed due to a failure on the aircraft, they make a hell of a racket. Obviously I never saw what you saw but could the other aircraft have been another one on a similar heading but much higher and smaller (like a fighter) and thus appearing closer than it was. I once saw a photo in the paper of two aircraft over a football ground in London that looked like they were about to collide but we're in fact no where near each other.
 

Bald Rick

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That sounds like a fuel tanker with a fighter "drinking" from it, if it was that low probably a demonstration rather than a live fueling.

That's if they really were that close together.


There are often flypasts over central London which involve close formations on special events. Example from later in 2002 ( not my video ):


Are you sure that’s 2002? They look like Typhoons in the last flyby.
 

Domh245

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Are you sure that’s 2002? They look like Typhoons in the last flyby.

A pair of typhoons, and what looks like an Airbus Voyager as well. The video title however reveals the answer:

"RAF aircraft heading to london for the queens birthday flypast 11/6/16"
 

randyrippley

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Norwegian flight DY7021 from Paris (CDG) to New York (JFK) has been diverted to London Gatwick tonight due to some sort of Hydraulic failure. Aircraft is a Boeing 787 Dreamliner. Reg G-CKKL

Cheers

Ben
Why does a Norwegian aircraft, used on routes between France and the USA, have a UK registration?
 

gsnedders

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Why does a Norwegian aircraft, used on routes between France and the USA, have a UK registration?
Presumably owned and operated by Norwegian Air UK, which is a UK airline? (The structuring of Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA is… a mess.) As long as the UK remains part of the EU, any UK airline has the right to operate flights to/from any EU member state.
 

randyrippley

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I've been thinking about raising something on here for years now, which shows a degree of reluctance on my part, but if I don't raise it then I will never get a possible explanation.

First of all, I'm a complete ignoramus on aviation matters, know next to nothing about different aircraft, etc, but in this context I don't believe that's too important, so please bear with me.

This story is sixteen years old now. I was in London for a few days, almost certainly the early part of March 2002 because I was attending the London Book Fair, which took place at that time of year. Sunday was Booksellers' Day so, being my calling, that was the day I always attended. Monday was sometimes worth going to for me, but Tuesday never so. So, it would have been on either the Monday or Tuesday, it was a nice early Spring day and I elected to sit outside the ground floor café/restaurant at the Barbican Centre in the City of London, with remarkably few others doing the same. Time was lunchtime, around 12.30 to 1.15, I'd say, and suddenly there was this terrible screeching roar in the sky above as a passenger aircraft (if I saw which airline, then I forgot) went almost overhead in a N.E. to S.W. direction seemingly only yards above us at low speed, with an RAF aircraft to one side of it almost as if tied by an umbilical cord. This was only six months after 9/11, and the sound of the aircraft was chillingly similar to that of the first airplane to hit the World Trade Centre, captured on that piece of film. I admit to being full of apprehension and dread, thinking that, whether a terrorist action or not, that plane was going to crash, and quite soon. I got on the phone to my wife and told her what I'd seen and heard, in the expectation that the magnitude of it would shortly become apparent. I didn't know what else to do, phones in those days weren't mini computers and I had no access to any other sources of info. I awaited the air being filled with insistent sirens, etc etc, but none ever transpired and, what's more, the incident was never reported in any newspaper, no news channels, nothing. It was as though I'd dreamed the whole thing up (spoiler- I didn't!) I'd lived and worked in London for decades before that and the only time I'd seen an airplane flying so low was on the approaches to Heathrow, or London City, but it was that awful screeching noise that really got to me. There must have been a news blackout on it all, as thousands of people in the City of London at least must have witnessed it.

So my question here is simple - does anyone else remember this/ heard tell of it or can provide a rational explanation as to what was going on.

Thank you for your forbearance.


Theres a chance it was one of Chobham/Flight Refueling Ltds Falcon 20 fleet, with a Navy Hawk trainer in convoy. They fly around like siamese twins carrying out radar calibration / simulated attacks. The Falcon simulates a bomber, the Hawk a missile, and they're loaded with electronic jamming gear. More likely than a refueling move over London: none of the authorised refueling zones cover London.
But its most likely to have been a regular passenger flight that had a false alarm raised, maybe a comms issue, and the fighter was there as a precaution. If you asked on the PPRUNE forum, someone there would probably know exactly what it was
 

Peter Mugridge

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A pair of typhoons, and what looks like an Airbus Voyager as well. The video title however reveals the answer:

"RAF aircraft heading to london for the queens birthday flypast 11/6/16"

Oops... I've done a typo on the date because I was thinking of the questioner's year of sighting!!! :oops::oops::oops:
 

Peter Mugridge

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Meanwhile...

For those who like to see unusual moves... there will be an AlbaStar Boeing 737 at Stansted this Sunday 1st April with a charter for Lourdes, running as flight number AP5037 and due to depart at 14.50.

The return move on Saturday 7th April will be even more exotic... a Corsair A330 working in at 13.45 on flight number CRL853.
 

Busaholic

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Theres a chance it was one of Chobham/Flight Refueling Ltds Falcon 20 fleet, with a Navy Hawk trainer in convoy. They fly around like siamese twins carrying out radar calibration / simulated attacks. The Falcon simulates a bomber, the Hawk a missile, and they're loaded with electronic jamming gear. More likely than a refueling move over London: none of the authorised refueling zones cover London.
But its most likely to have been a regular passenger flight that had a false alarm raised, maybe a comms issue, and the fighter was there as a precaution. If you asked on the PPRUNE forum, someone there would probably know exactly what it was
Thanks for that, sounds feasible to me. I don't know the forum, being out of my comfort zone completely with this sort of thing, but I don't like things that continue to bug me, so maybe I'll ask, delicately.
 

Peter Mugridge

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Meanwhile...

For those who like to see unusual moves... there will be an AlbaStar Boeing 737 at Stansted this Sunday 1st April with a charter for Lourdes, running as flight number AP5037 and due to depart at 14.50.

The return move on Saturday 7th April will be even more exotic... a Corsair A330 working in at 13.45 on flight number CRL853.

Further to the above, there in fact appear to be several separate Albastar charters from Stansted to Lourdes tomorrow in addition to the one I mentioned; it looks as if virtually the entire fleet will put in an appearance during the day...

This *could* mean there will be more than just the one Corsair movement next Saturday as well, but at this stage I would be guessing...


Edited 13.14 on 01/04/18: EC-LTG is booked to work AP5037.
 
Last edited:

Peter Mugridge

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I have had more than one person point out to me off list that whenever Corsair have used the flight number CRL853 before, it has produced a 747.

Could we really be going to have a Corsair 747 at Stansted this coming Saturday...?
 

gsnedders

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So, I've finally flown my first flight this year (!), flying with Ryanair for the first time in a long time. They do indeed, as I've heard, seem much better than they were when I last flew with them.
 

Peter Mugridge

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I have had more than one person point out to me off list that whenever Corsair have used the flight number CRL853 before, it has produced a 747.

Could we really be going to have a Corsair 747 at Stansted this coming Saturday...?

Short answer, we're not... but still, a Corsair A330 is not an everyday sight in the UK>

F-HSKY is allocated; flight code has been changed to SS853.
 

atillathehunn

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A shame that it's not the jumbo but it's actually is perhaps an A330 rarer at STN? Freight 747s appear to be fairly common
 
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