I wonder how the economics of it play out versus the flights that stop, if it's the most profitable? It's going to be burning more fuel to carry the fuel for the end of the flight that would be needed with a stop, but it's going to save an hour or two's stop, and it can almost certainly charge somewhat inflated prices for direct flights. To me the more interesting question is what happens when east-coast flights start and there starts being competition on the direct routes.
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Aviation Discussion
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London - Australia East Coast expected in 2022, but most likely with A350-1000ULR.
https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-non-stop-sydney-melbourne-to-london-new-york-by-2022
https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-non-stop-sydney-melbourne-to-london-new-york-by-2022
Shaw S Hunter
Established Member
A lot depends on the ability of the engine manufacturers to develop suitable products. But at the moment they have their hands full bringing their most recent products up to the required level of reliability. I suspect that 2022 will not be achieved, the question is how much later than that is realistic.
atillathehunn
Established Member
Huge chunks of the fuel burn are in the taking off and landing, so surely it has to be true that a flight with just one take off and landing saves fuel vs 2 take-offs and 2 landings?
If the plane was stopping in a cheap backwater with few landing fees and stand fees, nav fees etc then perhaps, but both Dubai and Singapore are likely to be very expensive to land at, be on stand at, and get all the necessary services at.
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
There's a picture of it on the BBC News website.
atillathehunn
Established Member
That is unfortunate. There's a picture on Cathay's Twitter feed as well, at least their laughing with themselves!
atillathehunn
Established Member
That's very impressive, no wonder they are happy with it.
I am surprised. Even if some of this is "new service bump" and the numbers reduce a bit next year, I'm sure they would still be happy with that.
The only downside is the inability to create a poor man's business class in economy with these load factors.
Was very grateful recently of a half empty Delta flight from Atlanta to Buenos Aires which allowed construction of a make-shift bed on both the inbound and outbound legs.
Ha ha, bonus, what are they like long haul in your experience? And how was Buenos Aires? My time there was too short and I was skint. Mate some amazing people.
atillathehunn
Established Member
Delta were nowhere near as bad as feared. Cabin on the 767 a bit ropey, the 767-400 had old IFE but I was working anyway. Leg room on the A333 was not super brilliant, but I laid out anyway, so no problem. The cabin crew were courteous, but very... American. Rule following, outwardly polite, until it might slightly inconvenience them, then they retreat. Food really not bad. Drinks were a good size, and freely flowing. Plenty of water provided, in full size Dasani bottles. Transit experience in Atlanta was horrible. In JFK not as bad. Atlanta ground staff were absolutely horrible. JFK were very friendly and helpful. Most cabin crew were pretty friendly, I've had far, far worse. Overall, I would fly them again. Late arriving home due to big thunderstorms, but not their fault.
Loved, loved, loved Buenos Aires. Not my first time, but I was there for work for half so didn't see much. The rest was holiday and adored Argentina. BA is such a beautiful city, and the surroundings too. People very friendly, and we had a beautiful apartment for next to nothing.
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When you said that you “loved loved loved BA” I thought you had taken leave of your senses for a moment. Then realised you were talking about Buenos Aires, and not the World’s favourite airline.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I read it the same...I'd happily go to Buenos Aires, but I wouldn't be flying there on the world's favourite overpriced, mediocre airline.
telstarbox
Established Member
Is BA the worst quality long haul outfit these days?
Not by a long way. But neither are they the best.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I think I'd probably say KLM is worse, but there's not a lot in it.
atillathehunn
Established Member
Changed the post in case any of you decide I've gone insane.
atillathehunn
Established Member
No, I would say United, WOW, and Norwegian rank below them. But that's not really saying much.
They are the worlds solidly mediocre airline with such a heavy focus on the US that its hard to avoid them.
atillathehunn
Established Member
Gosh they're ruined Amsterdam. Terrible airport now. KLM has crap leg room, inedible food and service is meh. All for an exaggerated price.
I know a lot of British companies use BA as the default option for trans Atlantic, but would you say that there is much ‘inbound’ from North American patrons who want to avoid United, Delta, AA etc?
The thing is I’ve heard good recent reports about Delta (they have evidently learned a few things from Virgin), and my parents swear by AA on their regular jaunts across and within the States. They refuse to countenance United. I suspect that Air Canada have sown up the Canadian inbound market from the sensible side of North America
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I've generally speaking found that flying with the national airline of the country I'm going to has served me fairly well. The most recent such experience was Air Canada, who I thought were pretty good, particularly the crews[1]. Malaysia and Thai are both excellent (though the former had rather a run of bad luck). China Eastern were fine if nothing special. American I haven't used for ages but found them decent when I did.
[1] Mind you, this is the country where in response to me having dopily forgotten to sign my customs declaration I got, verbatim, "You forgot to sign it, dude!" with a bit of a giggle. As distinct from the threat of deportation I got (aged 17) from a US border guard in response to the same error.
Depends on your definition of “European”. Turkish are doing rather well (several good reports) and I’ve also heard good things about FinnAir and, surprisingly, LOT.
I must stress I’m only relaying this second hand, I’m not a regular long hauler - strictly an easyJet kinda guy.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I'm aware of a couple of cases of Turkish failing to correctly board people, then offloading them from their return journey because of being a no-show, and refusing to back down and admit they were wrong (even in the face of considerable evidence) until legal action was taken.
That would put me right off. Wouldn't touch such an institutionally arrogant institution with a bargepole.
That would put me right off. Wouldn't touch such an institutionally arrogant institution with a bargepole.
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
Austrian are a very good airline.
Cheers mate. I also loved Buenos Aires, a really beautiful city. The place we stayed was proper low budget but really nice. I spent a good few hours one evening chatting to a chap from Texas who was amazing. Out and about in the city I met loads of locals who were brilliant, even Falklands war veterans by the Casa Rosada. One thing ai am gutted I didn't do was visit the Bombonera in La Boca. Loads of people online said don't go there unescorted, I think they were a little over cautious, from what I have heard since it is no worse than going to Anfield, and I have been there countless times. Regarding Delta, will keep them in mind as am hoping to visit North America in the next year or two.
Butts
Veteran Member
With regard to Ryanairs forthcoming changes Priority Boarding is already becoming a pain before the even more draconian policies kick in.
On my "fag run" this week from Stansted to Luxembourg the Priority Queue is already on a par with the "normal" one god knows what it will be like from later on this year.
Time was there were only a handful of us in the Priority Lane.
Interesting article in the papers recently about the billions airlines rake in by way of extras - almost on a par with revenue from pure ticket sales in some cases.
On my "fag run" this week from Stansted to Luxembourg the Priority Queue is already on a par with the "normal" one god knows what it will be like from later on this year.
Time was there were only a handful of us in the Priority Lane.
Interesting article in the papers recently about the billions airlines rake in by way of extras - almost on a par with revenue from pure ticket sales in some cases.
Butts
Veteran Member
Forget all that are the "smoking booths" still in situ ?
berneyarms
Established Member
Indeed - BsAs is the normal shorthand for Buenos Aires and not BA!!
atillathehunn
Established Member
Indeed - BsAs is the normal shorthand for Buenos Aires and not BA!!
Well my defense is there's a giant topiary display saying "BA" by the independence monument on the main avenue in BsAs, so I feel somewhat justified.
atillathehunn
Established Member
Swiss and Lufty are not bad at all, but very Germanic, if you're into that sort of thing.
Turkish airlines has very hot cabins, but they are really quite nice otherwise. Istanbul at the moment is a horrific airport, but the new one will open soon and make things a lot better. I've had bad rumours like this, but also from every airline.
Heading further afield, QR, KQ and ET are really quite good these days.
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