British Airways doesn’t enable the relevant ticketing functionality to offer pro-active online upgrades on connecting itineraries of any type, only on standalone sectors.
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Aviation Discussion
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British Airways doesn’t enable the relevant ticketing functionality to offer pro-active online upgrades on connecting itineraries of any type, only on standalone sectors.
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FrodshamJnct
Established Member
This is a great read/watch:
https://theaviationist.com/2020/03/...rit-arriving-into-raf-fairford-earlier-today/
https://theaviationist.com/2020/03/...rit-arriving-into-raf-fairford-earlier-today/
That’s awesome. Was that filmed from a public area?
FrodshamJnct
Established Member
Yes, from what I understand. From UK Aviation Movies on YouTube.
flymo
Established Member
Seeing the impact of the Coronavirus on the aviation industry, just as a random stat for you from Hong Kong where we have had this Coronavirus for about 2 months now, today there were around 100 passenger aircraft departures instead of the more usual 600+ or so from HKG, meaning a truly massive reduction in capacity. If the current restrictions and lockdowns in certain parts of Europe are extended then there will be a massive reduction in air passenger capacity within UK also and this will see huge problems for airlines and their staff. I see today that Jet2 have cancelled all flights to Spain and who knows where or which airline next. Easter is fast approaching and so many families will have holidays booked, truly a difficult time for all. So sad this is happening lets hope it is all a bit better by summer, I have my doubts though as this is just starting in UK. I've had to cancel my own holiday to UK for end of Apr, QR have changed the flights twice now and quite likely more to come between now and then.
Anyone with any flights booked in the coming days and weeks, or indeed any flight or cabin crew furloughed, good luck, hope all goes well and all is back to normal as soon as possible..
Anyone with any flights booked in the coming days and weeks, or indeed any flight or cabin crew furloughed, good luck, hope all goes well and all is back to normal as soon as possible..
I’m just round the corner from you in Sai Ying Pun. I flew down to Singapore on CX the other day, had an entire cabin to myself. This has never happened before. At least it meant i felt comfortable taking the dreaded facemask off. I’ve no idea how many daily flights there normally are HKG-SIN but it seems to be down to two on CX and two on SQ at the moment. Crazy times.
Judging by comments from friends in the UK determined to continue with planned holidays and events (and Boris’s rather underwhelming response), I’m not sure Britain has quite grasped what is ahead yet. Part of my hopes that the Brits more laid back approach to risk (and belief that they have to be able to do whatever they want) than your average Hong Konger means normal life will resume more quickly here as they see the UK doing it.
WatcherZero
Established Member
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Ryanair and BA: you cant lend Flybe money, its wrong for a government to intervene in the aviation market and we will sue.
Two months later: We need a £5.5bn government bailout of the aviation Industry or we will go bust!
Two months later: We need a £5.5bn government bailout of the aviation Industry or we will go bust!
Aictos
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- 10,403
Personally I don't think face masks will do much for Joe Public as it's more effective to wash your hands more frequently then wearing face masks and the only people who should be wearing them are people who need to such as NHS staff, cleaners etc...
As far as I'm concerned with the virus, I'm carrying on as usual and that's what people ought to be doing instead of running scared of this bug.
That said recently I've seen rail suffer from this bug as much as the airlines, one station I went to yesterday would usually be buzzing with activity but yesterday was very quiet that you could just use 5 car trains all day and still have plenty of seats never mind running 12 car trains.
As far as I'm concerned with the virus, I'm carrying on as usual and that's what people ought to be doing instead of running scared of this bug.
That said recently I've seen rail suffer from this bug as much as the airlines, one station I went to yesterday would usually be buzzing with activity but yesterday was very quiet that you could just use 5 car trains all day and still have plenty of seats never mind running 12 car trains.
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
Serious question: Would it get round the "state support" rules if the Goverment was to charter the unsold seats even if they don't put anyone in to occupy them for the flight?
Airline costs fall into, very roughly, 5 areas:
Aircraft ownership / lease
Fuel
Staff
Airport charges
Back office activities
Those who own aircraft will (usually) have debts to service, those who lease will have lease charges. I expect that all airlines are already in discussion with their creditors / lessors regarding deferring payments. They are actually in a fairly strong position - debts will (effectively) be secured on the aircraft - which the creditor is going to find difficult to realise value from. Same for lessors.
Fuel - if the aircraft aren’t flying, they won’t be using it. Most airlines hedge their forward fuel requirements; some may even have committed to purchase rather than a commitment to a price if purchased. The latter is the better position.
Staff - expect voluntary then enforced lay offs.
Airport charges - similar to fuel. Some may only be paid for if used. Some will be already committed.
Back office activity - expect voluntary then enforced lay offs.
Of all these, the only action that will make the news is the job losses. The general public aren’t interested in airlines negotiating with banks.
The main issue is cash flow. Airlines (like many businesses, but perhaps more so than most), use revenue received now (for flights that may be many months away), to pay for costs incurred over the past few weeks. Revenue has effectively stopped. Costs haven’t reduced - yet - as the airlines are typically paying now for fuel / staff / charges etc. they used last month. Hence my earlier observation that airlines with a strong balance sheet (and braver creditors) should be ok.
Aircraft ownership / lease
Fuel
Staff
Airport charges
Back office activities
Those who own aircraft will (usually) have debts to service, those who lease will have lease charges. I expect that all airlines are already in discussion with their creditors / lessors regarding deferring payments. They are actually in a fairly strong position - debts will (effectively) be secured on the aircraft - which the creditor is going to find difficult to realise value from. Same for lessors.
Fuel - if the aircraft aren’t flying, they won’t be using it. Most airlines hedge their forward fuel requirements; some may even have committed to purchase rather than a commitment to a price if purchased. The latter is the better position.
Staff - expect voluntary then enforced lay offs.
Airport charges - similar to fuel. Some may only be paid for if used. Some will be already committed.
Back office activity - expect voluntary then enforced lay offs.
Of all these, the only action that will make the news is the job losses. The general public aren’t interested in airlines negotiating with banks.
The main issue is cash flow. Airlines (like many businesses, but perhaps more so than most), use revenue received now (for flights that may be many months away), to pay for costs incurred over the past few weeks. Revenue has effectively stopped. Costs haven’t reduced - yet - as the airlines are typically paying now for fuel / staff / charges etc. they used last month. Hence my earlier observation that airlines with a strong balance sheet (and braver creditors) should be ok.
Thinking about it, this could be curtains for Boeing, if the 737MAX problems weren’t enough. In a scenario where various airlines go under, and a lot of ‘pre-loved’ aircraft come to market at knock down rates, and cheap fuel (Jet A1 is the cheapest it’s been for two decades) that makes operation older aircraft cheap, the market for new aircraft will be interesting.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
There is no possible way the US Government will let Boeing collapse. They will nationalise it if necessary.
HSTEd
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Giving Boeing's importance to the defence complex in the US, it is unlikely they will be allowed to go under.
And thats before we consider they are really the only "American" airliner manufacturer left.
On reflection, you are probably right, particularly with the defence angle. However it has lost 75% of its value in the space of 4 months, and lost 22% today. Compared to EADS which has only lost half its value in the same time, and 10% today. In Boeing’s case, that probably leads to a significant ramp down of production, which will take time to restore.
HSTEd
Veteran Member
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Indeed, I think this might lead to them losing the prominance that comes with their enormous market share.
Probably a good time to work for one of the new chinese manufacturers, airbus or even the Russian airliner complex.
Techniquest
Veteran Member
Boeing's been through tough times in the past though, and made it through, so I'm sure they'll survive. As the honourable gentleman Bletchleyite said, there's no way the US government will let them disappear.
I've been hearing rumours at work today that there's going to be a ban on transport coming in this week, thanks to this Covid-19 virus. Joyful times with my Iceland trip coming up in a few days' time...So now I've got a bit of concern going on, but I'm also going to wait and see what happens first. Until I get advised my flights are cancelled or whatever, I'm still aiming to travel to London on Sunday afternoon.
Certainly just the possibility of not being able to jet off on my long-awaited trip is unwelcome...
I've been hearing rumours at work today that there's going to be a ban on transport coming in this week, thanks to this Covid-19 virus. Joyful times with my Iceland trip coming up in a few days' time...So now I've got a bit of concern going on, but I'm also going to wait and see what happens first. Until I get advised my flights are cancelled or whatever, I'm still aiming to travel to London on Sunday afternoon.
Certainly just the possibility of not being able to jet off on my long-awaited trip is unwelcome...
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I wouldn't. As per the latest Government advice you stand a strong possibility of being stranded, and as you've been advised against travelling your insurance won't provide any cover.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but official Government advice is to avoid all but ‘essential’ international travel for the next 30 days. Holidays don’t fall into the category of essential, even if it means ticking off Keflavik.
cactustwirly
Established Member
Your Iceland trip is as good as cancelled mate
Techniquest
Veteran Member
Sounds like it's all off then
Does this mean I'm not going to be able to explore around the UK too? I really don't fancy being stuck in Hereford for 9 days!I'm guessing this advice is on the gov.uk website somewhere?
Sounds like it's all off then
I'm guessing this advice is on the gov.uk website somewhere?
Yep all here for international:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/travel-advice-novel-coronavirus
And there is this thread, which is one o fmany, but probably best for advice on rail at present.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...st-non-essential-travel-and-gathering.202231/
Whilst there is advice to avoid non-essential travel in the UK also, at present there is no one going to stop you, and you’ll have plenty of space on some trains. If you use Thameslink services you may even get a seat...
If planning a trip in the U.K. instead, bear in mind that it is almost certain that TOCs will be operating revised (and as yet unpublished) timetables, probably as soon as next week.
Techniquest
Veteran Member
Next week, well after 11am on Saturday to be more specific, is when my time off work is. I'm starting to feel it'll just be easier to ask the boss if I can have the holiday hours paid instead and I'll just go to work instead. I'm fairly sure they'd not mind my working at the moment, but it's the holiday pay I want!
Thanks for the link, and that other thread I've already been on. It was an interesting one to read earlier! Shall have a look at the gov.uk link shortly, then decide what to do from there. Hey, at least I have something to do on my day off tomorrow now, get all this sorted!
As you are a far more experienced traveller than I am - I probably don’t need to say this, but - don’t cancel your flight; let the airline cancel it so they have to refund you. If it looks like they are not going to cancel it (and some flights from the U.K. to Keflavik were still operating today) and you decide not to go, then because of the U.K. Govt advice you can claim on your travel insurance (although check your insurance documentation to be sure are covered).
The Gov advice is clear - don’t travel unless you have to, and if you do, be prepared to have an extended stay at your destination, and have ready access to sufficent money that will enable you to do so.
Techniquest
Veteran Member
Good advice, I will indeed be waiting for Wizz Air to cancel the flights. Seems fairly likely, given that Ryanair and even Virgin have cut a lot of their schedules recently.
I'm not sure to be honest what the travel insurance that came with my credit card covers. I got it after booking the trip, so I've not examined every part of the policy. Definitely something to look at over a coffee tomorrow...
Thanks for the responses, always handy to have people like yourself around who are sensible!
I'm not sure to be honest what the travel insurance that came with my credit card covers. I got it after booking the trip, so I've not examined every part of the policy. Definitely something to look at over a coffee tomorrow...
Thanks for the responses, always handy to have people like yourself around who are sensible!
I’m not that sensible, I’m in the pub trying to see if a couple of pints will shift this new persistent cough I’ve got
(Much more seriously, Wizz are still operating Luton to Keflavik, albeit I think on reduced schedules. If they haven’t been in touch about your flight, then it’s likely it’s still operating, for now. May be worth doing a false booking to check).
Butts
Veteran Member
I’m not that sensible, I’m in the pub trying to see if a couple of pints will shift this new persistent cough I’ve got
(Much more seriously, Wizz are still operating Luton to Keflavik, albeit I think on reduced schedules. If they haven’t been in touch about your flight, then it’s likely it’s still operating, for now. May be worth doing a false booking to check).
Couple of B&H will do the trick !!
So glad I got in and of Luxembourg by Air last week before all this kicked off - good luck TQ in whatever you decide to do.
Funnily enough, Gold was the choice. Gave it up 25 years ago!
Techniquest
Veteran Member
Cheers lads, and good luck in getting that cough gone. To be fair, with regards to going to the pub, I'd have done the same a few months ago. Stiff upper lip and all that, keep the economy going etc. Of course, these days I'm more likely to be found in a coffee shop these days! Mmm, coffee...I have multiple free coffees to claim at Caffe Nero too...
Now not going away, given the advice yesterday, and once I calmed down and stopped panicking I slept on a decision. Thought about it on a cycle ride this morning, and unsurprisingly the boss is not complaining about the idea of my cancelling my time off to help take the pressure off the team!
I'll get that week off later in the year instead, which is fine, I've no idea when I'll get to use it as I only like using time off to go travelling, but in the meantime bring on the extra money!
Now not going away, given the advice yesterday, and once I calmed down and stopped panicking I slept on a decision. Thought about it on a cycle ride this morning, and unsurprisingly the boss is not complaining about the idea of my cancelling my time off to help take the pressure off the team!
I'll get that week off later in the year instead, which is fine, I've no idea when I'll get to use it as I only like using time off to go travelling, but in the meantime bring on the extra money!
Easyjet news:
They have today released their winter schedule up to the end of Feb ‘21 today. Very unusually, no flight is more than £29.99, and is being held at that price until Monday, ie prices are not rising with yield management. That includes all dates across Christmas and on the Saturdays of February half term, where flights to popular destinations are often 10 times that price. Half term Saturday flights to Geneva and Salzburg have almost sold out already.
But if you want to have a cheap flight over Christmas or Feb half term, there’s plenty of other cities available. You need to be prepared to take the risk that a) the current virus situation with respect to international travel is resolved by then and doesn’t reappear at that time, and b) that Easyjet are still a going concern by then.
Go grab yourself a bargain, and you can owe me a pint.
(Clearly this is designed to ease EZYs cash flow).
They have today released their winter schedule up to the end of Feb ‘21 today. Very unusually, no flight is more than £29.99, and is being held at that price until Monday, ie prices are not rising with yield management. That includes all dates across Christmas and on the Saturdays of February half term, where flights to popular destinations are often 10 times that price. Half term Saturday flights to Geneva and Salzburg have almost sold out already.
But if you want to have a cheap flight over Christmas or Feb half term, there’s plenty of other cities available. You need to be prepared to take the risk that a) the current virus situation with respect to international travel is resolved by then and doesn’t reappear at that time, and b) that Easyjet are still a going concern by then.
Go grab yourself a bargain, and you can owe me a pint.
(Clearly this is designed to ease EZYs cash flow).
I've noticed Norwich Airport is probably the only airport making money off the Coronavirus downturn. In the last week 10 BA Cityflyer E-Jets have turned up for storage, along with a growing number of BRA Avrojets, waiting to see if anything bigger turns up. I know 737s and 757s and some of the A320 family can land there (not sure about A321s)
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