Aviation Discussion

[Aictos]

Too many places to list haha.

People have already mentioned Prague and Budapest. Both incredibly beautiful cities, but they can be incredibly touristy (pre-Covid obviously) and are nowhere near as cheap as they used to be. Still, if you haven't been, they are definitely worth visiting. If you go, I'd definitely go outside of the summer holiday peak as they are both just too busy.

I have also traveled a fair bit around the Czech Republic. There are some truly beautiful towns and cities there which tend to be less touristy. Check out Cesky Krumlov, Pilsen (home of the beer) and Brno which are all interesting.

Poland is another country which is surprisingly beautiful. There's the obvious Krakow and Gdansk, but there are more off the beaten track places which are really nice like Torun. Poland's another place which is nowhere near as cheap as it used to be. I was in Warsaw last summer and all of the relatively trendy bars packed full of locals in the centre were pushing 15 zloty plus for a pint of beer. That's about £3. You can still get a sub £1 in Poland, but only in the provinces in less fashionable bars.

If you want less touristy and cheap, Ukraine is also decent. Lviv is a little like how I imagine Krakow was 20 years ago. Wizz and Ryanair both fly there from the UK so it's not too difficult to get to. Kiev also has its charms considering it's a major city.

Some good suggestions there, will have a think as need to plan for 2022.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Couldn’t the pilot just have asked everyone to go for a big wee? Would have saved bout 4 persons’ worth of weight.

All joking apart - take the refreshment carts off the plane with all the canned drinks etc. Definitely save weight.

Of course it is why DEN has one of the longest civil airport runways in the USA - 1 mile high but can still get blistering heat in the summer.

 

[Bletchleyite]

All joking apart - take the refreshment carts off the plane with all the canned drinks etc. Definitely save weight.

Of course it is why DEN has one of the longest civil airport runways in the USA - 1 mile high but can still get blistering heat in the summer.

Or just keep upping the offer. Eventually enough will volunteer. Every man has his price.

That might not just be cold hard cash. I was offered once on a KLM Schiphol-Birmingham flight to be bumped to going via Paris, I think 200 quid was the offer. That would have had me arriving in Birmingham after the last train south, not much use, and a taxi would burn all of that and possibly more. I went to the desk and said I'd volunteer if they'd put me on the next KLM flight to either London City or Heathrow instead (there were seats to both, I'd checked) - they weren't interested.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Or just keep upping the offer. Eventually enough will volunteer. Every man has his price.

My record for getting bumped is $1000 out of CHS - Charleston South Carolina. On Delta

 

[JonasB]

Has anyone flown to Eastern Europe and if so is there any destination that can be recommended? I've been to Estonia so anywhere apart from there.

Riga. Beautiful city and no over tourism (at least not compared to Prague or Krakow). Air Baltic flies direct to Riga from several UK cities.

 

[TravelDream]

All this talk of holidays is making my feet itch. My last flight was the mid-December and it's getting close to four months! Summer holidays this year looking a little less likely each day.

My record for getting bumped is $1000 out of CHS - Charleston South Carolina. On Delta

Nice.
We got 600 USD each from El Al being bumped TLV-LHR. They started at 200 which tempted nobody, then went to 400 where I got interested and then to 600 which was a bit too hard to resist considering we had only paid about £250 for the return flights. Only about ten or fifteen of us volunteered, so they started compulsorily bumping people after that.
It seemed to be a common theme as when we caught the flight the next day they were also asking for volunteers to get bumped. They were offered a flight later that day rather than a hotel stay as we had.

Riga. Beautiful city and no over tourism (at least not compared to Prague or Krakow). Air Baltic flies direct to Riga from several UK cities.

I visited Riga once about a decade ago. It was February and an icy gale was blowing off the Baltic sea which was slightly miserable. And I simply couldn't believe how busy it was with tourists. I'm not talking a few dozen, but the main sites and bars/ restaurants packed with foreigners.
So I'd say it's definitely touristy and a bit overrun with stag/hen parties. Though I suppose compared to Prague and Krakow it isn't that bad.

Mind you, are there any nice places are left that don't suffer from a certain level of over-tourism nowadays?
For transport nerds, airport passenger numbers can tell you a lot about tourism in a city.
Krakow is the city which really stands out to me for a massive boom in passenger numbers. Their airport handled 593k passengers in 2003. By 2019, that had grown to 8.4 million. That's 14 times more passengers in a little over 15 years.
But you can see it across Eastern Europe. Take Riga. 700k passengers in 2003 compared to 7.8 million in 2019. Or look at much larger and more important city Prague. 7.4 million in 2003 compared to 17.8 million in 2019.
Now I know a hell of lot more locals fly than did in 2003, but numbers like Krakow's are simply astounding.

That's my big worry about places like Lviv. When I visited, there were no direct flights from the UK and very few from Western Europe. Now that Wizz and Ryanair fly from the UK, I am sure hordes of tourists will be on the way.
They already went from 570k passengers in 2015 to 2.2 million in 2019.

 

[daodao]

Krakow is the city which really stands out to me for a massive boom in passenger numbers. Their airport handled 593k passengers in 2003. By 2019, that had grown to 8.4 million. That's 14 times more passengers in a little over 15 years.

Much of the traffic on flights between the UK and Poland, and to a lesser extent from the UK to other Eastern European countries, comprises migrants to the UK returning home on visits, rather than British tourists. I have a Polish neighbour who under normal circumstances flies back to Krakow regularly several times a year to visit relatives and friends. There are significantly more people with Polish ethnicity in the UK than any other European nationality.

There are direct flights from Krakow to 16 UK airports, although some routes may currently be suspended: Belfast (Aldergrove), Birmingham, Bournemouth, Bristol, Doncaster/Sheffield, East Midlands, Edinburgh, Glasgow (Abbotsinch), Leeds/Bradford, Liverpool, London (Gatwick, Heathrow, Luton and Stansted), Manchester and Newcastle-upon-Tyne.

 

[TravelDream]

Much of the traffic on flights between the UK and Poland, and to a lesser extent from the UK to other Eastern European countries, comprises migrants to the UK returning home on visits, rather than tourists. I have a Polish neighbour who under normal circumstances flies back to Krakow regularly several times a year to visit relatives and friends. There are significantly more people with Polish ethnicity in the UK than any other European nationality.

Isn't that exactly what I said?

I said a hell of a lot of Poles are traveling. Traveling for holidays, business/ work and VFR.

What I was trying to put across was the explosive growth of air travel in the region when comparing 2003 and 2019. I chose 2003 as that was the last full year those countries were not EU members. Whilst many are not travelling for touristic purposes, many are.

2019 had Krakow = x14 2003's level. Riga = x10 2003's level. Compare to Liverpool = x1.56 2003's level or Newcastle = x1.33 2003's level.

 

[Aictos]

British Airways is set to begin operating Embraer aircraft to Gibraltar as it expands its BA CityFlyer network from London City Airport. Alongside Gibraltar, the British flag carrier will also run a new Jersey service from the central London airport.

A year ago, the entire BA CityFlyer fleet was grounded as London City Airport closed its doors due to the first wave of the COVID-19 pandemic. However, now the smaller Embraer Jets are actually standing in for their parent company’s operations, as is the case with the London to Frankfurt route, currently only served from London City. CityFlyer is planning quite the summer despite the current COVID-19 restrictions.

Gibraltar flights
As the British flag carrier, flying to Gibraltar is nothing new for British Airways. However, the airline will be adding twice-weekly flights to the British Overseas Territory on Monday and Friday from June 25th. The services will initially run for the summer season. According to British Airways, flights will operate to the following schedule,

• BA 3289 – London City (LCY) 13:15 – Gibraltar (GIB) 17:10 – M – – – F – –
• BA 3290 – Gibraltar (GIB) 17:55 – London City (LCY) 19:50 – M – – – F – –

The Embraer E190 will complete the route. While the carrier used to operate the E170, the last of these has now left the fleet, heading stateside.

Along with the flights to Gibraltar, BA CityFlyer will also launch flights to Jersey on June 25th. Again, these will operate twice a week on Mondays and Fridays. While flights to Gibraltar will start at £43 (59.20) one way, the much shorter Jersey flight will be offered ever so slightly cheaper at just £42 (57.82) one way.

According to British Airways, the Jersey flights will operate the following schedule,

BA 3283 – London City (LCY) 09:45 – Jersey (JER) 10:50 – M – – – F – –
BA 3284 – Jersey (JER) 11:25 – London City (LCY) 12:30 – M – – – F–

Potential passengers should note that for four weeks from August 9th, the Monday Jersey rotation will operate later in the day.

Commenting on the launch Tom Stoddart, MD of CityFlyer, said,

“It’s great to be able to launch these two new services to Gibraltar and Jersey – it’s something customers have been asking us to do for quite a while. Whether it’s for a holiday or visiting friends or relatives who live either end of route when the time is right, customers will benefit from direct flights to and from the extremely conveniently located London City Airport"

British Airways To Fly Embraers To Gibraltar from London City

simpleflying.com

 

[Butts]

British Airways is set to begin operating Embraer aircraft to Gibraltar as it expands its BA CityFlyer network from London City Airport. Alongside Gibraltar, the British flag carrier will also run a new Jersey service from the central London airport.

A year ago, the entire BA CityFlyer fleet was grounded as London City Airport closed its doors due to the first wave of the COVID-19 pandemic. However, now the smaller Embraer Jets are actually standing in for their parent company’s operations, as is the case with the London to Frankfurt route, currently only served from London City. CityFlyer is planning quite the summer despite the current COVID-19 restrictions.

Gibraltar flights
As the British flag carrier, flying to Gibraltar is nothing new for British Airways. However, the airline will be adding twice-weekly flights to the British Overseas Territory on Monday and Friday from June 25th. The services will initially run for the summer season. According to British Airways, flights will operate to the following schedule,

• BA 3289 – London City (LCY) 13:15 – Gibraltar (GIB) 17:10 – M – – – F – –
• BA 3290 – Gibraltar (GIB) 17:55 – London City (LCY) 19:50 – M – – – F – –

The Embraer E190 will complete the route. While the carrier used to operate the E170, the last of these has now left the fleet, heading stateside.

Along with the flights to Gibraltar, BA CityFlyer will also launch flights to Jersey on June 25th. Again, these will operate twice a week on Mondays and Fridays. While flights to Gibraltar will start at £43 (59.20) one way, the much shorter Jersey flight will be offered ever so slightly cheaper at just £42 (57.82) one way.

According to British Airways, the Jersey flights will operate the following schedule,

BA 3283 – London City (LCY) 09:45 – Jersey (JER) 10:50 – M – – – F – –
BA 3284 – Jersey (JER) 11:25 – London City (LCY) 12:30 – M – – – F–

Potential passengers should note that for four weeks from August 9th, the Monday Jersey rotation will operate later in the day.

Commenting on the launch Tom Stoddart, MD of CityFlyer, said,

“It’s great to be able to launch these two new services to Gibraltar and Jersey – it’s something customers have been asking us to do for quite a while. Whether it’s for a holiday or visiting friends or relatives who live either end of route when the time is right, customers will benefit from direct flights to and from the extremely conveniently located London City Airport"

British Airways To Fly Embraers To Gibraltar from London City

simpleflying.com

Great Aircraft for short haul - will they still be flying to Gibraltar from LGW/LHR as well ?

How will they get the 170's across the pond as they only have a range of about 2500 miles - refuel in Iceland or somewhere ?

 

[packermac]

Great Aircraft for short haul - will they still be flying to Gibraltar from LGW/LHR as well ?

How will they get the 170's across the pond as they only have a range of about 2500 miles - refuel in Iceland or somewhere ?

Why would City Flyer be involved with a transatlantic route? LCY-JFK was a BA mainline route and as far as I know it has been pulled as not being profitable and I believe both A318's have been sold.

 

[221129]

Why would City Flyer be involved with a transatlantic route? LCY-JFK was a BA mainline route and as far as I know it has been pulled as not being profitable and I believe both A318's have been sold.

Think you've misunderstood. The City flyer E170s have gone to the states.

How will they get the 170's across the pond as they only have a range of about 2500 miles - refuel in Iceland or somewhere ?

Normally a refuel in the North somewhere and then onto Keflavik and onwards to the US.

 

[Ediswan]

How will they get the 170's across the pond as they only have a range of about 2500 miles - refuel in Iceland or somewhere ?

Might be able to get direct to St John's Newfoundland or Gander, especially with no passengers, which would increase range. If not, Galway would be a convenient fuel stop.

 

[Aictos]

Great Aircraft for short haul - will they still be flying to Gibraltar from LGW/LHR as well ?

How will they get the 170's across the pond as they only have a range of about 2500 miles - refuel in Iceland or somewhere ?

I don't know about the Heathrow and Gatwick operations but you are right that for short haul, the Embraers are great aircraft with their 2+2 seating which is why I prefer flights operated by the type.
I am hoping once it's possible to do a trip to Gibraltar mostly for the duty free's though

 

[Butts]

Might be able to get direct to St John's Newfoundland or Gander, especially with no passengers, which would increase range. If not, Galway would be a convenient fuel stop.

I wonder if they will take off from Norwich Airport in succession and fly in formation - like A Squadron of Embraers.

Probably be the most activity the place has seen for months.

 

[221129]

I wonder if they will take off from Norwich Airport in succession and fly in formation - like A Squadron of Embraers.

Probably be the most activity the place has seen for months.

Very unlikely.

 

[najaB]

Very unlikely.

Shame, it would be more efficient fuel-wise.

 

[Speed43125]

Shame, it would be more efficient fuel-wise.

and hideously unsafe!

 

[najaB]

and hideously unsafe!

Airbus disagrees.

Note, we're not taking about flying aerobatic displays.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Great Aircraft for short haul - will they still be flying to Gibraltar from LGW/LHR as well ?

How will they get the 170's across the pond as they only have a range of about 2500 miles - refuel in Iceland or somewhere ?

A new Jersey service, not a New Jersey service!

 

[najaB]

A new Jersey service, not a New Jersey service!

Nice.

Though, for clarity, the question was how did the 170s get to the States after they left the BA fleet, rather than a new trans-Atlantic service launching from London City.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Nice.

Though, for clarity, the question was how did the 170s get to the States after they left the BA fleet, rather than a new trans-Atlantic service launching from London City.

Sorry if the comment came across as facetious.

Ferry flights for delivery, transfer and retirement can be fantastically complex things, delivery from Everitt or Toulouse or São Paulo for shorter range aircraft can involve some pretty exotic routings and can be fun Flightradar24 tracking exercises.

There's an interesting article here which refers to ferrying of even smaller aircraft, a hairy business indeed! https://www.maf-uk.org/story/the-ferry-flight-route

 

[flymo]

How will they get the 170's across the pond as they only have a range of about 2500 miles - refuel in Iceland or somewhere ?

Having a look at Flightradar24, E170 G-LCYE made the trip from Norwich to Macon in Georgia USA with stops at Reykjavik, Goose Bay and Bangor. Longest sector 3h53m (1520 miles) from Reykjavik to Bangor.

G-LCYE Flightradar24 data

 

[Butts]

Having a look at Flightradar24, E170 G-LCYE made the trip from Norwich to Macon in Georgia USA with stops at Reykjavik, Goose Bay and Bangor. Longest sector 3h53m (1520 miles) from Reykjavik to Bangor.

G-LCYE Flightradar24 data

I was right about Iceland then !!

Were they flying at Mach 0.82 and at 41,000 feet ?

 

[eoff]

I don't know about the Heathrow and Gatwick operations but you are right that for short haul, the Embraers are great aircraft with their 2+2 seating which is why I prefer flights operated by the type.

And Cityflyer had complimentary refreshments on domestic LCY flights after these were removed from BA LHR flights. I always preferend EDI-CLY to EDI-LHR, not such an easy choice in the other direction though as LCY was terrible at busy times.
I hope LCY has used the last year or so to fix the issues with the airport (not enough seating, up/down stairs on some arrivals)

 

[Bletchleyite]

And Cityflyer had complimentary refreshments on domestic LCY flights after these were removed from BA LHR flights. I always preferend EDI-CLY to EDI-LHR, not such an easy choice in the other direction though as LCY was terrible at busy times.
I hope LCY has used the last year or so to fix the issues with the airport (not enough seating, up/down stairs on some arrivals)

Departing from LCY is horrid. They really need to build a new terminal that genuinely has enough capacity (and is nicer architecturally) rather than keeping bolting bits on. It's not been pleasant to depart from there since they added more than the original 10 gates.

TBH Heathrow would now be my first choice from central London, T2 and T5 were real transformations, taking it from one of the worst major airports in the world to one of the best in a very short period of time.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Departing from LCY is horrid. They really need to build a new terminal that genuinely has enough capacity (and is nicer architecturally) rather than keeping bolting bits on. It's not been pleasant to depart from there since they added more than the original 10 gates.

TBH Heathrow would now be my first choice from central London, T2 and T5 were real transformations, taking it from one of the worst major airports in the world to one of the best in a very short period of time.

Indeed. LGW is horrid in comparison. Only good thing if your mental age is 5, is riding the driverless people mover as that is landside.

 

[Aictos]

And Cityflyer had complimentary refreshments on domestic LCY flights after these were removed from BA LHR flights. I always preferend EDI-CLY to EDI-LHR, not such an easy choice in the other direction though as LCY was terrible at busy times.
I hope LCY has used the last year or so to fix the issues with the airport (not enough seating, up/down stairs on some arrivals)

I didn't know they still had complimentary refreshments on domestic LCY flights, I was under the impression that it was stopped on all BA flights both BA and BA Cityflier, in any case the seating layout was far more to my liking.

Departing from LCY is horrid. They really need to build a new terminal that genuinely has enough capacity (and is nicer architecturally) rather than keeping bolting bits on. It's not been pleasant to depart from there since they added more than the original 10 gates.

TBH Heathrow would now be my first choice from central London, T2 and T5 were real transformations, taking it from one of the worst major airports in the world to one of the best in a very short period of time.

I disagree, departing from LCY isn't as bad as you make it out to be especially as the transfer time from arriving off the DLR to passing though security is quite fast and painless. If it wasn't for the cost of flying out of there, I would use it more because of how quick it takes to get from arriving and onto your flight.

Heathrow I try to avoid if possible but this isn't always possible.

 

[najaB]

I disagree, departing from LCY isn't as bad as you make it out to be especially as the transfer time from arriving off the DLR to passing though security is quite fast and painless.

I've only used LCY a couple of times but, based on that, I agree - one of the fastest, easiest train to plane experiences.

 

[nlogax]

I've only used LCY a couple of times but, based on that, I agree - one of the fastest, easiest train to plane experiences.

LCY is a joy to use and I prefer to use it over LHR which is far closer to me. Also BA CityFlyer E190s are far more interesting than any A32x BA uses.